Discord's face scanning age checks 'start of a bigger shift' • Hacker News Board

Re: Discord's face scanning age checks 'start of a bigger shift'

#111

Post by exe34 » Thu, Apr 17, 2025, 9:26 PM UTC

threeseed wrote: post #20

roenxi wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, key point in the framing, when was it decided that Discord supposed to be the one enforcing this? A pop-up saying "you really should be 18+" is one thing, but this sounds like a genuine effort to lock out young people. Neither Discord nor a government ratings agency should be taking final responsibility for how children get bought up, that seems like something parents should be responsible for. This is over-rea…

> This is over-reach. Both in the UK and Australia 2/3 of Australians support minimum age restrictions for social media [1] and it was in-particular popular amongst parents. Putting the responsibility solely on parents shows ignorance of the complexities of how children are growing up these days. Many parents have tried to ban social media only for those children to experience ostracisation amongst their peer group l…

that sounds quite puritan. my god says I can't, is one thing. my god says you can't either, is very different.

now replace god with parent.

Re: Discord's face scanning age checks 'start of a bigger shift'

#112

Post by jkaplowitz » Thu, Apr 17, 2025, 9:29 PM UTC

KaiserPro wrote: post #104

roenxi wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, key point in the framing, when was it decided that Discord supposed to be the one enforcing this? A pop-up saying "you really should be 18+" is one thing, but this sounds like a genuine effort to lock out young people. Neither Discord nor a government ratings agency should be taking final responsibility for how children get bought up, that seems like something parents should be responsible for. This is over-rea…

When a corner shop sells cigarettes to minors, who's breaking the law? When a TV channel broadcast porn, who gets fined? These are accepted laws that protect kids from "harm", which are relatively uncontroversial. Now, the privacy angle is very much the right question. But as Discord are the one that are going to get fined, they totally need to make sure kids aren't being exposed to shit they shouldn't be seeing unti…

At least the ways that a corner shop verifies age don't have the same downsides as typical online age verifiers. They just look at an ID document; verify that it's on the official list of acceptable ID documents, seems to be genuine and valid and unexpired, appears to relate to the person buying the product, and shows an old enough age; and hand the document back.

The corner shop has far fewer false negatives, far lower data privacy risk, and clear rules that if applied precisely won't add any prejudice about things like skin color or country of origin to whatever prejudice already exists in the person doing the verification.

Re: Discord's face scanning age checks 'start of a bigger shift'

#113

Post by KaiserPro » Thu, Apr 17, 2025, 9:29 PM UTC

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #38

jasonlotito wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> confiscate the equipment if the child breaks the rules. Even you acknowledge this plan is flawed and that the child can break the rules. And it's not that difficult. After all, confiscating the equipment assumes that they know about the equipment and that they can legally seize the equipment. Third parties are involved, and doing what you suggests would land these adults in prison. I know you thought you were being…

These are not 20 something college students with jobs and rented apartments, doing stuff without their parents knowing. These are kids younger than 13, they don't have jobs, they live with their parents, no internet/data planes outside of control of their parents, no nothing. The goal of these laws is to get ID checks on social networks for everyone, so the governments know who the "loud ones" (against whatever polit…

> The goal of these laws is to get ID checks on social networks for everyone

The UK government is nowhere near competent enough to be that stealthy.

Also, it already has this ability already. Identifying a person on social media is pretty simple, All it takes is a request to the media company, and to the ISP/phone provider.

> If a 12yo kid (or younger) can somehow obtain money and a phone and keep it hidden from their parents,

Then you have bigger fucking problems. If a 12yo can do that, in your home and not let on, then you've raised a fucking super spy.

> parents can and should have total control of their child.

Like how? constantly check their phones? that's just invasion of privacy, your kid's never going to trust you. Does the average parent know how to do that, will they enforce non-disappearing messages?

Allowing kids to be social, safe and not utter little shits online is fucking hard. I'm really not sure how we can make sure kids aren't being manipulated by fucking tiktok rage bait. (I mean adults are too, but thats a different problem)

Re: Discord's face scanning age checks 'start of a bigger shift'

#114

Post by AStonesThrow » Thu, Apr 17, 2025, 9:31 PM UTC

red-iron-pine wrote: post #83

zehaeva wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a good thing to think about. I knew a guy in high school who had male pattern baldness that started at 13 or 14. Full blown by the time he was 16. Dude looked like one of the teachers.

i went to school with a guy who had serious facial hair at like 14. dude was rocking 5 oclock shadows by the end of the school day

Was your school located at 21 Jump Street?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/21_Jump_Street

Was it Steve Buscemi toting a skateboard?

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/how-do-you-do-fellow-kids

Re: Discord's face scanning age checks 'start of a bigger shift'

#115

Post by exe34 » Thu, Apr 17, 2025, 9:32 PM UTC

nyanpasu64 wrote: post #98

Frankly I'm scared by governments and corporations going "papers, please" for people to be allowed to access the Internet. On top of endangering privacy by tying pseudonymous online interactions to real-life ID and biometrics, attempts to block under-18 people from finding information or interacting online will only amplify how society regards them as not having rights. This will isolate people (especially gay and tr…

> prevent them from learning (by talking to friends in different situations) that being beaten or emotionally put down by parents is abusive and traumatizing.

parents didn't know I'm gay, but they did control all flow of information (before social media) by controlling all movements outside school.

it took me until my thirties to realise how deeply abusive my childhood was. the only hints I had, in hindsight, was the first Christmas at uni, everybody was excited to go home and I couldn't fathom why on earth anybody would want to. I dismissed it as an oddity at the time.

Re: Discord's face scanning age checks 'start of a bigger shift'

#116

Post by Symbiote » Thu, Apr 17, 2025, 9:38 PM UTC

EA-3167 wrote: post #110

KaiserPro wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When a corner shop sells cigarettes to minors, who's breaking the law? When a TV channel broadcast porn, who gets fined? These are accepted laws that protect kids from "harm", which are relatively uncontroversial. Now, the privacy angle is very much the right question. But as Discord are the one that are going to get fined, they totally need to make sure kids aren't being exposed to shit they shouldn't be seeing unti…

Cigarettes are deadly Broadcasting porn isn't an age ID issue, it's public airwaves and they're regulated. These aren't primarily "think of the children" arguments, the former is a major public health issue that's taken decades to begin to address, and the latter is about ownership. I don't think that chat rooms are in the same category as either public airwaves or drugs. Besides what's the realistic outcome here? Un…

You can swap cigarettes with another age restricted product, like pornography or 18-rated DVDs if you prefer.

The UK also has rules on what can be broadcast on TV depending on the time of day.

Re: Discord's face scanning age checks 'start of a bigger shift'

#117

Post by MiddleEndian » Thu, Apr 17, 2025, 9:38 PM UTC

Fuck this, need a law to explicitly ban face scanning

Re: Discord's face scanning age checks 'start of a bigger shift'

#118

Post by KaiserPro » Thu, Apr 17, 2025, 9:40 PM UTC

EA-3167 wrote: post #110

KaiserPro wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When a corner shop sells cigarettes to minors, who's breaking the law? When a TV channel broadcast porn, who gets fined? These are accepted laws that protect kids from "harm", which are relatively uncontroversial. Now, the privacy angle is very much the right question. But as Discord are the one that are going to get fined, they totally need to make sure kids aren't being exposed to shit they shouldn't be seeing unti…

Cigarettes are deadly Broadcasting porn isn't an age ID issue, it's public airwaves and they're regulated. These aren't primarily "think of the children" arguments, the former is a major public health issue that's taken decades to begin to address, and the latter is about ownership. I don't think that chat rooms are in the same category as either public airwaves or drugs. Besides what's the realistic outcome here? Un…

> These aren't primarily "think of the children" arguments

Are you kidding me? v-chip, mary whitehouse, Sex on TV are all the result of "think of the children" moral panics. Its fuck all to do with ownership.

> I don't think that chat rooms are in the same category as either public airwaves

Discord are making cash from underage kids, in the same way that meta and google are, in the same way that disney and netflix offering kids channels.

Look I'm not saying that discord should be banned for kids, but I really do think that there is a better option than the binary "Ban it all"/"fuck it, let them eat porn"

Kids need to be able to talk to each other, but they also should be able to do that without being either preyed upon by nonces, extremists, state actors and more likely bored trolls.

Its totally possible to provide anonymous age gating, but its almost certainly going to be provided by an adtech company unless we, the community provide something cheaper and better.

Re: Discord's face scanning age checks 'start of a bigger shift'

#119

Post by Symbiote » Thu, Apr 17, 2025, 9:43 PM UTC

raspyberr wrote: post #44

woodrowbarlow wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ultimately, i think the endgame is to require government ID in order to access internet services in general, a la ender's game.

Please walk me from scratch how you would access the internet on your own right now without any form of Government ID

Prepaid SIM from one of the EU countries that still has them, such as Denmark. Purchase in cash from a kiosk.

Re: Discord's face scanning age checks 'start of a bigger shift'

#120

Post by aucisson_masque » Thu, Apr 17, 2025, 9:44 PM UTC

They will do just enough so that they comply with the law while kids will be able to easily bypass it.

Where there is a will, there is mean and teenager looking for porn... That's a big willpower.