Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors • Hacker News Board

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#111

Post by Tichy » Sun, Aug 12, 2012, 7:31 AM UTC

"Reddit’s voting system provides a reliably transparent soundboard for fitness knowledge."

Any studies showing that? I find such online discussions interesting, and certainly sometimes they might reveal better information than just going to your doctors office. But these are just people hanging out online - just because they vote something up doesn't mean it is proven, it just means they like to believe it. In fact, for any theory you can probably find an online community that believes in it and votes up things supporting that belief.

The latest studies I read about seem to indicate that low carb and so on are irrelevant, calorie reduction is all that counts. But if you want to believe in low carb, you can probably find lots of anecdotes proving its effectiveness. Possibly because the low carbers accidentally also reduced calorie intake. (Although my own criticism of those studies is that it remains unclear how differing diets allow you to keep calories low. One snickers bar might have enough calories for a day, but it would be difficult to just eat one snickers bar every day, contrary to eat lots of whole grains).

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#112

Post by Tichy » Sun, Aug 12, 2012, 7:36 AM UTC

fingerprinter wrote: post #52

Xcelerate wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would be surprised, but the overweight people doing marathons still do less than 50 mpw. I am meaning a consistent 50 throughout the year -- not "peaking" at it. If you know some counterexamples personally, I'd be very interested in hearing about them -- it would be an unusual situation.

I know several personally, but I hate using personal anecdotes as evidence. These people religiously run 45-55 miles a week (slightly below your number, I know, but there is nothing magical about those last 5 miles). They also run a slow 50. But, they still run around 50 a week and they are overweight. The point being there is nothing magical about running long distances and being lean, IMO. Someone could (and like I…

What I never get about those overweight runners is why don't their joints give in? Running 50 miles if you are overweight seems like a receipt for arthrosis.

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#113

Post by nullc » Sun, Aug 12, 2012, 7:54 AM UTC

Xcelerate wrote: post #60

dicktalens wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most basketball players are tall. I guess basketball makes you taller.

And???

I want to be really tall like a giraffe. I guess I'll go eat the leaves from the tops of the trees.

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#114

Post by dennisgorelik » Sun, Aug 12, 2012, 7:58 AM UTC

btilly wrote: post #82

dennisgorelik wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Running 20 minutes/day 7 days a week is very realistic for 90% of the population. That's enough to keep the body in a good shape.

You don't have kids, do you? Become a full time parent, then see how much time you have left. And note that in this thread the standard for what you should do is an hour a day 5 days a week rather than 20 minutes a day for 7 days a week.

Why would kids stop you from getting exercise? Get a stroller and give your kids a ride while you are running. Or give them bicycles and run with them.

Not sure why we all should follow "1 hour runs 5 times per week" suggestion. We are not professional runners.

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#115

Post by rmm » Sun, Aug 12, 2012, 8:07 AM UTC

xiaoma wrote: post #19

From reading the article I get the impression that the author isn't that familiar with the scientific literature at all. The evidence he presents against the usefulness of cardio for weight loss compares a group of weightlifters against a group of runners who ran only 20km per week and they still lost marginally more weight than the weightlifters! Cardio really should be a minimum of an hour per day, at least 5 days…

Regarding Marathons; As recently as this year the Mayo Clinic has looked at Potential Adverse Cardiovascular Effects From Excessive Endurance Exercise[1]. I also recall a study a couple years back that showed inflammatory damage to marathoners hearts for up to 3 months after running the event.

Regarding all the studies you have quoted, all of them are epidemiological in nature, and do not prove causal relationships. These studies have hundreds of confounding variables that cannot be understood, and are only as good as a person’s memory (can you remember how much protein you ate in 2011 on a weekly basis?). These studies are used to build hypothesis that THEN can be actually tested.

Now in regards to the scientific literature on the actual physiological processes involved; recent studies have shown [2] [3] that longer forms of exercise such as jogging and running etc. burn more calories DURING exercise, but have an overall negative impact on the hormones that influence weightloss (cortisol etc.). Whereas research [4] [5] [6] on weight lifting and short bursts of high intensity have shown that these forms of exercise light up all the fat loss hormones for even days later, and outperform cardio/aerobic exercises. Not only that, but looking at the aerobic exercises from a hormonal standpoint, these types of exercise negatively affect hunger and stress hormones. [7] [8]

Also I don’t see where there is “food for thought” by looking at Taubes and Atkins any more than looking at the hundreds and thousands of success stories (on places like reddit) who follow this protocol.

My 2c.

[1] http://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(12)0...

[2] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&...

[3] http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/83/2/626

[4] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&...

[5] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&...

[6] http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v32/n4/abs/0803781a.html

[7] http://alturl.com/dnwr

[8] http://ajpregu.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/296/1/R29

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#116

Post by dennisgorelik » Sun, Aug 12, 2012, 8:08 AM UTC

btilly wrote: post #106

hnriot wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do, and I don't have a problem finding 20 minutes to run every day. Become better at time management before posting nonsense like that.

Let me guess, your spouse isn't in a medical residency? Before I had kids, I never had trouble finding time to exercise and had little sympathy for people who did. Since I've had kids my ability to exercise has varied with life circumstances. At the moment it is very hard for me because my wife is in a medical residency, so most of the time I'm an only parent to small kids. In particular in periods when I exercised,…

How about hiring teenager next door to watch for your kids while they are sleeping and you exercise?

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#117

Post by jules » Sun, Aug 12, 2012, 8:27 AM UTC

btilly wrote: post #106

hnriot wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do, and I don't have a problem finding 20 minutes to run every day. Become better at time management before posting nonsense like that.

Let me guess, your spouse isn't in a medical residency? Before I had kids, I never had trouble finding time to exercise and had little sympathy for people who did. Since I've had kids my ability to exercise has varied with life circumstances. At the moment it is very hard for me because my wife is in a medical residency, so most of the time I'm an only parent to small kids. In particular in periods when I exercised,…

How do you find time for HN?

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#118

Post by rcgs » Sun, Aug 12, 2012, 8:27 AM UTC

fingerprinter wrote: post #74

peterwwillis wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same for fats. This is why nobody should be taking fitness advice from random non-professionals on the internet

Does anyone think there is a place for bad fats in their diet today? I mean, do we really need to be explicit there? I'll give you carbs, but fats? If you are reading this and it is unclear...do not eat bad fats. Good fats are fine. So to be explicit on carbs (if someone is unclear): There is actually a place for all carbs. If you are lifting heavy weights, post workout you can eat simple carbs. I personally put dext…

Clearly we should all be eating Lemon Curd.

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#119

Post by konstruktor » Sun, Aug 12, 2012, 8:38 AM UTC

johnchristopher wrote: post #110

xiaoma wrote: post #19

From reading the article I get the impression that the author isn't that familiar with the scientific literature at all. The evidence he presents against the usefulness of cardio for weight loss compares a group of weightlifters against a group of runners who ran only 20km per week and they still lost marginally more weight than the weightlifters! Cardio really should be a minimum of an hour per day, at least 5 days…

In the 4chan/reddit there is a weird distortion field that makes those communities associate fitness with aesthetics. Running and jogging are widely and overtly depreciated in favour of only "cold iron and do you even lift ?" memes. Bodybuilders are there models.

You are confusing bodybuilding, which has an aesthetic goal, with weightlifting/powerlifting, which has functional goals, hence the names. There is, of course, somewhat of a continuum. Just look at pictures of olympic weightlifters in the lightest weight groups and what they lift. This is pure explosive power and coordination, as those lifts are very complex. Then you have powerlifters, who still aren't very bulky and do complex full body motions under high load. A bodybuilder, however, does many isolated repetitions (with little weight) to cause muscular hypertrophy. /r/fitness, by the way, advocates functional strength training.

Re: Obesity and Fitness Are Revolutionized By Reddit, Not Doctors

#120

Post by konstruktor » Sun, Aug 12, 2012, 8:50 AM UTC

neutronicus wrote: post #9

david_shaw wrote: post #8

Disclaimer: this post is going to go into some of my personal experiences with weight loss, fitness, and reddit. In March 2012, not all that long ago, I was considered obese. Living a life primarily behind the computer screen while leading an engineering team at a rapidly growing startup (over 100% growth in the last year alone) left little time for me to consider my fitness. I'd eat trash -- burritos four or five ti…

I have a pet hypothesis that one of (for instance) Keto's main benefits is that it shakes up habitual eating patterns. Instead of trying to eat less of foods you're used to eating a lot of, you're forced to develop new habits around entirely new food. I've also gone from 250-ish down to 170-ish (although over the course of 2 years, not 4 months, lol), but I haven't really bought into any specific diet. I just don't e…

Expanding on the theme of unexpected benefits, I think that one of the things that makes weightlifting helpful for weight loss is causing cognitive dissonance when eating crap. Since the first increases in what you can lift come from increased inter- and intramuscular coordination and are thus very rapid and really astounding, you can quickly get a feeling of agency and the belief that you are becoming a sporty person. Both will help you make better food choices.