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Datastar: Web Framework for the Future?

chrismalek.me

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Re: Datastar: Web Framework for the Future?

#111

Post by mdhb »

hsbauauvhabzb wrote: post #97
tipiirai wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A JavaScript framework, built by a person who hates JavaScript doesn’t sound right

With additional swipes at ecosystems and ‘must be written in go’ with no real justification as to _why_ more than the developers preference

I am not in any way “pro go” but it’s also very clear that JS is not the future. I know it’s where a LOT of people are right now but it’s been artificially pumped up to such a massive degree by being literally the only viable choice for the web for the entirety of its existence… and that’s starting to change and from both a technical, performance and development experience it is going to lose when that advantage goes away.

Re: Datastar: Web Framework for the Future?

#112

Post by andersmurphy »

sesm wrote: post #96
brap wrote: post #80

Future? Looking at some of the examples, this seems a lot like the same old web server frameworks we had like 15 years ago, maybe more. Granted they didn’t have SSE but regardless the DX was pretty bad. I don’t see a compelling reason to go back.

People with 15+ years of experience are not the target audience for this framework.

I'd argue the opposite.

I feel if anything Datastar is targeted ad veteran devs who are done with endless ecosystem churn, who want to use their favorite backend language and to make performant fullstack realtime collaborative apps.

If you haven't run the gauntlet you probably won't see the appeal.

Re: Datastar: Web Framework for the Future?

#114

Post by udioron »

From datastar's docs:

> Backend Setup

> Data star uses Server-Sent Events (SSE) to stream zero or more events from the web server to the browser. There’s no special backend plumbing required to use SSE, just some syntax. Fortunately, SSE is straightforward and provides us with some advantages.

As a django developer, this is very far from true. With htmx i get almost no backend changes (mainly in template code), where datastar would require me to rewrite it and may not be possible to implement at all.

Re: Datastar: Web Framework for the Future?

#115

Post by andersmurphy »

udioron wrote: post #114

From datastar's docs: > Backend Setup > Data star uses Server-Sent Events (SSE) to stream zero or more events from the web server to the browser. There’s no special backend plumbing required to use SSE, just some syntax. Fortunately, SSE is straightforward and provides us with some advantages. As a django developer, this is very far from true. With htmx i get almost no backend changes (mainly in template code), where…

Sounds like a django over abstraction problem. SSE is standard HTTP.

If laravel can do it django can.

Re: Datastar: Web Framework for the Future?

#116

Post by andersmurphy »

resonious wrote: post #78

Nitpicking but > SSE enables microsecond updates, challenging the limitations of polling in HTMX. How is this true? SSE is just the server sending a message to the client. If server and client are in opposite sides of the world, it will not be a matter of microseconds...

You can have microsecond updated, once the connection is established you can stream. Regardless of your latency.

Say your ping is 100 (units are irrelevant here). It will take you 100 before you see your first byte but if the server is sending updates down that connection you will have data at whatever rate the server can send data. Say the server sends every 10.

Then you will have updates on the client at 100 110 120 130 etc.

Re: Datastar: Web Framework for the Future?

#117

Post by andersmurphy »

throwaway519 wrote: post #99
sudodevnull wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well obviously there's a difference between latency and throughput. Of course it's going to be microsecond plus your rtt/2. Sorry, we can't beat physics.

Can't beat physics but can write better copy.

Latency doesn't affect server update rate it affects time to first data.

Re: Datastar: Web Framework for the Future?

#118

Post by andersmurphy »

recursive wrote: post #90
sudodevnull wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well obviously there's a difference between latency and throughput. Of course it's going to be microsecond plus your rtt/2. Sorry, we can't beat physics.

Everyone knows no one can beat physics. That doesn't excuse claiming you can beat physics.

Latency doesn't affect server update rate it affects time to first data. I can have a ping of 500ms and still get an update from a stock ticker every 5 milliseconds. They will arrive at 500 505 510 etc.

Re: Datastar: Web Framework for the Future?

#120

Post by throw1223323 »

throwaway519 wrote: post #98
hsbauauvhabzb wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With additional swipes at ecosystems and ‘must be written in go’ with no real justification as to _why_ more than the developers preference

Robust performance, error handling that's not stuck in 1982, and cross platform would be my guesses, but agree the OP could be more spicific as there are more benefits.

I hate Go as much as anyone, but it has incredible cross platform support.

There's built in cross compilation for building a static binary across window/mac/linux.

It's the number 1 feature in Go, lol.

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