Usability Improvements in GCC 15 • Hacker News Board

Re: Usability Improvements in GCC 15

#111

Post by gus_massa » Thu, Apr 10, 2025, 7:59 PM UTC

teddyh wrote: post #34

dralley wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GPLv2 and GPLv3, for one example... It's sad when two licenses from the same organization are incompatible. GPLv2 and Apache.

The number of significant software projects which are licensed as GPLv2- only , and which are therefore incompatible with GPLv3, can probably be counted on one hand. Normal GPLv2 projects are licensed – as instructed by the text in the license itself – as “GPLv2 or later ”. Which means that any normal GPLv2-licensed software can be relicensed to GPLv3, and can therefore be combined with any other GPLv3-licensed progr…

For GPL v2 only, let's start the list with Linux and Git...

The "or later" has been used in creative ways, like relicencing all the Wikipedia content, or the Affero to AGPL transition. Nothing shady, but unexpected.

Do you trust RMS to avoid doing shady things in the later GPL licence? I do, but he is not longer in the FSF.

Do you trust the current members of the FSF to avoid doing shady things in the later GPL licence? I don't know them.

Do you trust the future members of the FSF to avoid doing shady things in the later GPL licence???

Re: Usability Improvements in GCC 15

#112

Post by aseipp » Thu, Apr 10, 2025, 8:03 PM UTC

brcmthrowaway wrote: post #64

What is the status of GCC plugins?

They work. You can use them? They haven't gone anywhere and the Linux kernel relies on them extensively, among other things.

Re: Usability Improvements in GCC 15

#113

Post by pjmlp » Thu, Apr 10, 2025, 8:05 PM UTC

duped wrote: post #42

pjmlp wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference being that vendors forks not compliant with GPL can be legally asked for the changes they haven't sent upstream.

With LLVM they don't need to fork it in the first place. But still, it doesn't matter because ISO compliance is a frontend problem. The one vendor who forks LLVM and doesn't contribute their biggest patches back is Apple, and if you want bleeding edge or compliance you're not using Apple Clang at all. If you say "isn't it great vendor toolchains have to contribute back to upstream?" I'm going to say "no, it sucks tha…

So are you aware how many contributions have actually been upstream by Sony, Nintendo, IBM, ARM, Green Hills, Codegear, TI, Microchip, Codeplay, NVidia, AMD, Intel, HP,.... ?

Because Apple certainly isn't alone.

Re: Usability Improvements in GCC 15

#114

Post by aseipp » Thu, Apr 10, 2025, 8:06 PM UTC

wiseowise wrote: post #12

Already looking forward to `grep`ing warning emojis in output. What's next? Poop emoji for errors?

Why wouldn't you just keep search for the "warning:" or "error:" anchor, like people (and editors) have been doing forever? Even if that wasn't true it's not like searching for emojis is hard anyway. If it takes longer than 2 seconds for you to open a picker then you should ask for a refund for your computer.

Re: Usability Improvements in GCC 15

#115

Post by pjmlp » Thu, Apr 10, 2025, 8:08 PM UTC

School-Cotton wrote: post #49

pjmlp wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The embedded compiler vendors, UNIX and consoles are quite happy with it. How much do you think they contribute back upstream regarding ISO compliance outside LLVM backend for their hardware and OS?

What exactly do you mean by "UNIX"? Commercial UNIX vendors other than Apple have basically a rounding error from 0% of market share.

Yet IBM, Oracle, HP and POSIX RTOS vendors keep enough customers happy with that rouding error.

Re: Usability Improvements in GCC 15

#116

Post by pjmlp » Thu, Apr 10, 2025, 8:10 PM UTC

bobmcnamara wrote: post #45

pjmlp wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The embedded compiler vendors, UNIX and consoles are quite happy with it. How much do you think they contribute back upstream regarding ISO compliance outside LLVM backend for their hardware and OS?

Apple, Arm, OpenBSD, FreeBSD have all switched to Clang.

Swichting wasn't the point.

Re: Usability Improvements in GCC 15

#117

Post by pjmlp » Thu, Apr 10, 2025, 8:13 PM UTC

bluGill wrote: post #38

pjmlp wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference being that vendors forks not compliant with GPL can be legally asked for the changes they haven't sent upstream.

Venders who use llvm quickly discover the cost of mainaining their own fork is too high and end up contributing back.

The point was the whole clang package, and no they don't, plenty of examples.

Re: Usability Improvements in GCC 15

#118

Post by johnisgood » Thu, Apr 10, 2025, 8:14 PM UTC

nottorp wrote: post #103

perching_aix wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows key + dot, then type in warning / if it was among the last ones you used, use the arrow keys, and hit Enter to insert it. If you use whatever OS other than Windows, I'm sure there are similar flows available if you search for it. And since it's just Unicode, I'm sure there are numpad based keybinds available too.

why shouldn't i just type grep warning instead of bringing up some GUI that possibly takes forever to initialize? how does it work over ssh? :)

It makes too much sense.

Re: Usability Improvements in GCC 15

#119

Post by mort96 » Thu, Apr 10, 2025, 8:14 PM UTC

panzi wrote: post #110

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Browser makers should straight up remove the JS API for interacting with history. There are legitimate uses for it, but the malicious actors far outweigh the good ones at this point. Just remove it.

I mean, without `history.pushState()` and `window.onpopstate` things wouldn't be as nice. Ok, I guess one could do about everything with `location.hash = ...` and `window.onhashchange`, like in the before times. But the server will not get the hash part of the URL so a link to such an page can't be server side rendered and has to fetch the actual page content in JavaScript, evaluating the hash. When I browse things l…

How about we just navigate to new pages by .. navigating to new pages? Browsers have perfectly functional history without javascript shenanigans

Re: Usability Improvements in GCC 15

#120

Post by johnisgood » Thu, Apr 10, 2025, 8:16 PM UTC

mort96 wrote: post #98

anthk wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you from 2001? Sorry, but Apple at servers' market it's non-existent. RH and Canonical make tons of money thanks to being THE platform of the ubiquituous internet. Support is not free.

Are you calling Linux a UNIX? I mean GNU/Linux is certainly a UNIX-like system, but aren't "UNIXes" typically used to refer to operating systems which stem from AT&T's UNIX, such as the BSDs and Solaris and HP-UX and the like? GNU's Not UNIX after all

I have fond memories associated with OpenSolaris. Oracle ruined it.

I have not tried OpenIndiana, however.