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After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

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Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For most people, particularly those who don't work in government. The federal government represents problems, aggravation, frustration and general resentment. Practically no one walks away from interactions with the federal government with a positive feeling. Dealing with the bureaucracy is generally awful. Most of the time you will go through several employees over the course of hours/days/weeks or even years and yo…

I mean, I feel like you might be aware of this, but what you're describing is literally PR and propaganda. Many millions of people get social security/etc payments every month from the federal government, but of course that doesn't count. "Keep the gov out of my medicare!" anyone? People have a real short memory and nobody appreciates the lack of mercury and arsenic in their sausages today, it's all about "what are y…

I'm speaking to the experience of dealing with the government. It's not propaganda, this is literally what happens. Everyone independently coming to the same conclusion based on their personal experience isn't propaganda. It's reality.

Have you ever tried to deal with the government. I have unfortunately had a lot of dealing with Social security, medicare, medicaid, etc. From having to deal with aging parents. Yes, perhaps once you have gone through the extreme myriad of hoops to get everything set up and your check is automatically coming then yes it's ok. But you better hope no one gets some piece of PII and files something that throws it off.

>I'm probably not cruel enough to do it but I wish every person who spoke like you just did would have to live a month or whatever without all of the benefits of the government.

This is a horrible authoritarian justification. People shouldn't be made to starve so they can appreciate the gruel they are given versus having nothing. We should have a functional, efficient, and pleasant government that isn't adversarial to the general population.

Do you have any idea how long it can take to get a Medicare / SSI disability claim approved?

It was two years for my family member and that's with a very legitimate non-controversial terminal diagnosis. She finally got approved about 3 months before she was on Hospice. And this is someone with reasonable resources and active family members advocating for her. I can't imagine what it's like for low income people without resources or education.

That's not just me though, here's a reddit thread of lots of other people with similar or worse experiences, ( and some better).

https://www.reddit.com/r/SocialSecurity/comments/1c0e8uk/how...

The fact of the matter is the majority of people don't have positive experiences when dealing with the government. I'm not even sure who is supposed to be pushing this propaganda. I would love for it to be the other way around and the government provides clear value in a helpful way, but that is simply not what people experience.

And that's not even getting into what it's like when you start getting copious amounts of automated nonsensical threatening form letters from the IRS.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#112
post #11

Is there any proof that they're coding errors? A simpler explanation, to me at least, is that they first blanket fired people by dubious criteria, and are now using this as an excuse to backpedal when they realize they've cut something important.

Non partisan take, in every circumstance coding errors are a euphemism for “leadership is humiliated by the outcome and wants to shirk responsibility”.

Unless perhaps they can furnish a really good post-mortem on the bug. Which is unlikely here.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#113
post #65

The obvious methodology at work here is 'fire everyone then hopefully re-hire only what is blindingly obviously needed'. There are many, many problems with this approach in a business setting but even more from a governmental setting. The first, and what should be obvious to anyone with an ounce of empathy, is that these are real people who's lives are being toyed with. It isn't like you are trying out a new business…

it works both ways. People quit without any notice all the time, and you can be fired for no reason and without notice. It’s not inhumane, it’s life. Your employer doesn’t owe you a job for life, and you don’t commit to your job for life.

[deleted]

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#114

The obvious methodology at work here is 'fire everyone then hopefully re-hire only what is blindingly obviously needed'. There are many, many problems with this approach in a business setting but even more from a governmental setting. The first, and what should be obvious to anyone with an ounce of empathy, is that these are real people who's lives are being toyed with. It isn't like you are trying out a new business…

> It is about total benefit to society, period.

What should we spend the next dollar on to achieve this goal?

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other issue is if you try to bring someone back who doesn't need the job, they have extraordinary leverage in negotiating their new contract.

[flagged]

Your comment is incomplete as well. They were put on leave ahead of their scheduled termination.

> The researchers, who were all placed on leave with pay until their future official dismissal date, were told a “computer error” or “coding error” led to their accidental terminations.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#116
post #65

The obvious methodology at work here is 'fire everyone then hopefully re-hire only what is blindingly obviously needed'. There are many, many problems with this approach in a business setting but even more from a governmental setting. The first, and what should be obvious to anyone with an ounce of empathy, is that these are real people who's lives are being toyed with. It isn't like you are trying out a new business…

it works both ways. People quit without any notice all the time, and you can be fired for no reason and without notice. It’s not inhumane, it’s life. Your employer doesn’t owe you a job for life, and you don’t commit to your job for life.

> you can be fired for no reason and without notice. It’s not inhumane, it’s life

It’s life in the same way as occasionally people get hurt, so it’s ok to hurt them on purpose. So no, it is not humane.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well then, that's pretty much an indictment of capitalism.

> an indictment of capitalism. Capitalism is the least bad system we have tried.

Who is "we" ? How many systems has "we" actually experienced first hand, and were the results such as you report them ?

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#118

The obvious methodology at work here is 'fire everyone then hopefully re-hire only what is blindingly obviously needed'. There are many, many problems with this approach in a business setting but even more from a governmental setting. The first, and what should be obvious to anyone with an ounce of empathy, is that these are real people who's lives are being toyed with. It isn't like you are trying out a new business…

A slightly less obvious problem with trimming fat is that an amount of fat within any system is good to have if you think long-term.

1. Fat is useful leeway. In critical times, it can be trimmed without otherwise disrupting the operation. Once you have eliminated fat during the good times, you can’t do it in the bad times.

2. A lean system without any fat by definition is tailored to just the current situation. It has much fewer degrees of freedom and is harder to steer to a new course if necessary.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#119
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Communism doesn't fare any better under that rubric. Any unbridled 'ism' taken to its extreme tends to fail most human centered tests.

Like athletism for example?

Absolutely. See: doping, steroids.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#120

> “Even if they stopped now, a lot of damage has been done,” another NINDS investigator says. “I think it’s a sinking ship. I don’t mean my lab, I mean biomedical research.”

It already was, though. We lost about 2 decades of alzheimer's research and probably about 30 drug candidates, and that's just one subfield.

Will we ever remember that?...
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