Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

haseebq.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 219 posts

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#111

Post by BobbyTables2 »

Jcampuzano2 wrote: post #78
Aeolun wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me too. It was utterly bizarre. Spent 6 month looking for a job, with I don’t know how many failed interviews, then I got one offer for a 6 month contract, and suddenly the next two companies I interviewed with were falling over themselves to give me a permanent one. I just do not see how that works. There’s no logical reason for it.

Why would someone not then just tell every recruiter/company they are interviewing with that they already have offers are are in the pipeline at other companies even if they don't. We've heard nowadays how hard it is to even get to the interview for many companies so theres probably plenty of candidates who do not have many other offers prepared or even close to prepared. Another issue is timing. Theres been times wh…

Sure works for realtors too!

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#112

Post by jaggederest »

parpfish wrote: post #65

I wish I could take this advice, but my imposter syndrome is just too strong and you cant just turn it off with logical explanations. By the time I get an offer, I already feel like I’m already uncomfortable about all the bragging I’ve had to do to hype myself up. Asking for more in a negotiation is just a recipe for even worse guilt during the onboarding process (which is already a fraught time for feeling like an i…

The simple thing I tell people to do who are uncomfortable with more complex negotiation is, just before you're about to accept the offer, just ask if they can increase it any. Just straight up say "Is there any room to increase this offer?" If they say no, just accept it. If not, let them increase it, then accept that increased offer. I've gotten an increase at a significant majority of companies doing this and it's essentially zero cost.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#113

Post by sbrother »

ryandrake wrote: post #35
taklimakan wrote: post #12

This is all very interesting, but is complete fiction for most readers. 99% of job seekers aren’t going to receive competing offers from multiple companies conveniently at the same time.

In a 25 year career, I've never really managed to significantly negotiate compensation upwards, either at the job offer phase or for raises once I'm in. It's always a "take it or leave it" offer and yea, I've chosen to leave it a few times. Recruiter: "Here's your offer for $X compensation." You: "I was actually looking for something paying $X+Y." Recruiter: "Well our offer is $X." You: "This data shows that comparab…

This has not been my experience at all -- even as recently as last year it was

Recruiter: "Here's your offer for $X"

You: "Well I'm also negotiating an offer with Z for $X + 200k

Recruiter: OK well how about $X + 200k and a 50k signing bonus?

Multiple offers are key -- seriously, timing that properly is the biggest thing you can do to optimize your job search. Even if you can't give exact numbers, the mere presence of a competing offer will make a company offer you top of band.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#114

Post by coredog64 »

shalmanese wrote: post #73
fdsf111 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I worked really hard at the practice of interviewing What did you do?

Not the OP but I tell everyone on the market that one of the highest ROI things you can do is just go through your own past career history with a fine toothed comb and simply remember all the different things you did and be able to tell the story of each concisely and informatively (if possible, recall actual numbers and quantifiable impacts etc.). When in an interview, when you're asked a question about your past ex…

As terrible as the Amazon interview process is, they’re very up front in telling candidates exactly this: Here are the LPs, come up with stories for each one and make sure it’s STAR format.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#116

Post by jh00ker »

johndhi wrote: post #36
aozgaa wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is addressed in the article: > Turns out, it doesn’t matter that much where your first offer is from, or even how much they’re offering you. Just having an offer in hand will get the engine running. > If you’re already in the pipeline with other companies (which you should be if you’re doing it right), you should proactively reach out and let them know that you’ve just received an offer. Try to build a sense of…

As a hiring manager, this might help negotiate pay up if I already wanted to hire you, but if I was on the fence, knowing someone I'm not thrilled with has an offer does basically nothing for me.

As a hiring manager, if I was on the fence, knowing someone I'm not thrilled with has an offer makes me try to figure out what I/we missed and I would reexamine potential gaps in our recruiting processes with the candidate, which are always wrought with biases. And luck is such a big factor (on both the company- and candidate-side) in getting a positive signal.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#117

Post by 0xbadcafebee »

> A company’s goal is to hire someone who will become an effective employee and produce more value than their cost.

This isn't true. They have no clue how to measure your value output. A company's goal is to make sure it has the staff to get its work done so it can sell its thing. A hiring manager's goal is to find someone to do the thing they don't have time/staff for. They will pay somewhere in the realm of whatever the market pays, depending on the "philosophy" of the hiring manager, engineering director, finance people, etc.

I recently interviewed for two jobs in different locations. Both remote, both companies in mid-tier locations in terms of salary. Same type of job, same kind & size of company, same tech, same problems to solve. One was offering 40K more than the other. I wasn't going to produce 40K more value for one than the other. Hiring and salary is just not a very smart process. They have the budget they have, and the market is what it is.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#118

Post by kmoser »

ryandrake wrote: post #35
taklimakan wrote: post #12

This is all very interesting, but is complete fiction for most readers. 99% of job seekers aren’t going to receive competing offers from multiple companies conveniently at the same time.

In a 25 year career, I've never really managed to significantly negotiate compensation upwards, either at the job offer phase or for raises once I'm in. It's always a "take it or leave it" offer and yea, I've chosen to leave it a few times. Recruiter: "Here's your offer for $X compensation." You: "I was actually looking for something paying $X+Y." Recruiter: "Well our offer is $X." You: "This data shows that comparab…

Pretty sure this is largely related to the industry and type of position you're applying for, and whether it's a big or small company.

At a big company with known positions (e.g. junior, mid-range, and senior devs), salaries for each of those positions may fall within a narrow range with little to no leeway. At a smaller company, where roles are more amorphous, starting salary may span a huge range depending on your specific qualifications, how their business is going, etc.

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#119

Post by bdangubic »

bluGill wrote: post #66
ryandrake wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a 25 year career, I've never really managed to significantly negotiate compensation upwards, either at the job offer phase or for raises once I'm in. It's always a "take it or leave it" offer and yea, I've chosen to leave it a few times. Recruiter: "Here's your offer for $X compensation." You: "I was actually looking for something paying $X+Y." Recruiter: "Well our offer is $X." You: "This data shows that comparab…

at my company the dollars are what they are - take it or leave it. However you can often get an extra week of paid vacation if you ask. You don't eken have to know it is exactly what we can give - the hiring manager wants you and has been told $x by hr but know vacation is an option and will offer it if you just don't say yes instantly.

I would NEVER work for a company where dollars are what they are - that is fucking mcdonald’s and I would in passing tell everyone their employer is either financially insolvent or a sweatshop. jesus!

Re: Rules for Negotiating a Job Offer (2016)

#120

Post by jongjong »

taklimakan wrote: post #12

This is all very interesting, but is complete fiction for most readers. 99% of job seekers aren’t going to receive competing offers from multiple companies conveniently at the same time.

Yes, our system is a multiverse of psychological distortions and senseless inequality. Some people straight out of university with no skills will receive large offers from multiple companies and will use that to negotiate themselves a big pay package then they will feel good about themselves and feel like they earned it...

But in reality it's just an illusion. Companies want to hire people who are delusional and believe that they deserve what they got. Big tech doesn't really need these people or their skills, in reality. They're merely cogs in the big machine. Big tech could easily have found someone better for a lower price; they get so many applications. The whole thing is like a psychological operation. They don't want to build up an elite class which understands how broken the system is. They want a delusional elite class who believe the grotesque myth of the meritocracy. People who don't believe in meritocracy are a huge threat; they cannot be allowed anywhere near the elite because the system is so unmeritocratic, it wouldn't take many interactions to snap the elite out of their comfortable trance.

Business leaders start getting imposter syndrome after they interact with people who understand reality. Business leaders sometimes start viewing themselves as mavericks/mafia boss and sometimes start behaving in dodgy ways.

It's like if you do something and you later discover that it was causing harm; you can either feel bad and correct your behaviour or you reinvent your self-image as a 'bad guy' and double down on the harm... Most people choose the latter, unfortunately.

Post reply on HN