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Where does air pollution come from?

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Re: Where does air pollution come from?

#111

Post by [deleted] »

nohuck13 wrote: post #58
noneeeed wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other striking aspect for me is how, as has often been the case, those most affected are the poorest. Levels of asthma in London are highest among kids in the vacinity of the docks where cruise and container ships and moor. They sit there running their engines for power, churning out SO2 and other pollutants. These areas are some of the poorest in London. The same was the case in industrial cities during the indu…

> Levels of asthma in London are highest among kids in the vacinity of the docks where cruise and container ships and moor. Wait, what? There are no container docks in London. The nearest container port serving London is Tilbury, near the coast. Occasionally a single cruise ship moors in the Pool of London against the HMS Belfast, but that's happening only one this month, for 12 hours on April 7, according to the Tow…

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Re: Where does air pollution come from?

#112

Post by nohuck13 »

noneeeed wrote: post #92
nohuck13 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Levels of asthma in London are highest among kids in the vacinity of the docks where cruise and container ships and moor. Wait, what? There are no container docks in London. The nearest container port serving London is Tilbury, near the coast. Occasionally a single cruise ship moors in the Pool of London against the HMS Belfast, but that's happening only one this month, for 12 hours on April 7, according to the Tow…

Cruise ships certainly used to moore up in the Greenwich stretch of the river at the and a few years ago there was quite a lot of coverage of the issue around it. Cruise ships require a lot of power while docked, and unless they connect to the grid they used to create a lot of air quality issues. If there are a lot less docking then that's great, but there do still seem to be a number that dock there https://blackhea…

Thanks, I didn't know that was a thing.

Still it's 3 to 4 cruise ships a month according to that article and, while probably hugely dirty, I would be surprised if the asthma rates of kids in affluent Greenwich and Blackheath are among "the highest in London" because of this.

Re: Where does air pollution come from?

#113

Post by macNchz »

noneeeed wrote: post #89
pjc50 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Levels of asthma in London are highest among kids in the vicinity of the docks Someone else pointed out that there's very little shipping in central London now. It's all cars and buses causing this pollution. > In fact if you try to do anything about inner city pollution you can pretty much guarantee an angry pushback. See how bonkers people got over the ULEZ: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66268073

There are still cruise ships that dock, and they have been a big issue for local kids. They use a lot of power while docked. I believe the solution is to hook them up to the grid, but that requires that they and the dock both have the facilities. There is a dock in the Greenwich area, and another one further down the Thames estuary.

Here in NYC shore power for cruise ships has been a multi-decade effort. The Manhattan terminal still has no shore power system because it requires an entirely new electrical substation. The Brooklyn one (in proximity to a poor neighborhood) had a system installed some years ago (with an eight figure price tag), but which ships were seemingly not bothering to use. They’ve since mandated that ships actually use it, if they have the capability, and I think they have some kind of incentives for the cruise lines to retrofit their ships for it.

Re: Where does air pollution come from?

#116

Post by malfist »

fads_go wrote: post #101
Calwestjobs wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Percentage wise absolutely, said beach can have 99% less pollution. but in absolute terms, pollution is so high in that street that even 1% of said beach pollution (which is already 1% of street) is already out of bounds of limits considered safe. Blue "haze" is pollution, not fog (water vapor). Look, people do not understand scale, one motorcycle/lawnmower can have emissions of 300 cars equipped with catalytic conve…

electric cars do not have emissions, true, but generating the electricity to power them does generate emmissions. Also, electric cars are heavier. This means not only higher tire pollution, but also they are inherently less fuel efficient. electric bikes, on the other hand,

EVs are not less efficient. When you burn gasoline you're only capturing 15-30% of it's stored chemical energy. An EV will convent 90% or more of it's energy into motion.

Re: Where does air pollution come from?

#117

Post by FalseNutrition »

rsynnott wrote: post #102
Tuna-Fish wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (where there's a significant risk that the owners of the factory are slipping the town councillors the odd brown envelope) This is in no way necessary, and is almost never what's going on. All that is needed is the factory owner quietly telling the town councillors that if they are forced to clean up their emissions, they will not be able to compete with foreign competitors who don't have to do the same, and will b…

> All that is needed is the factory owner quietly telling the town councillors that if they are forced to clean up their emissions, they will not be able to compete with foreign competitors who don't have to do the same, and will be forced to close. Thing is, they're usually _lying_ when they say that. A while back I was looking at buying a house that was near a local authority recycling centre, so went on the EPA's…

That's a very brave statement. The industry has moved abroad, we have never been less healthy, and it's still getting worse.

Re: Where does air pollution come from?

#118

Post by stephen_g »

dynm wrote: post #107

Perhaps the most surprising sources of particular matter is... sea spray. As water crashes around, stuff in the water (e.g. salt) often ends up suspended in the air. This apparently contributes a non-negligible percentage of PM2.5 matter in coastal areas, though exact percentages are hard to come by.

While I’m quite concerned about particulates generally (I use a few HEPA air purifiers around the house etc.), with this kind of thing it does feel like that kind of matter can’t be as bad for you as other types of PM2.5. I haven’t yet seen any research quantifying it (most studies just look at all PM2.5 as a single category) but surely there must be a difference about how bad different types of particulates are depending on what they’re made of - like those from combustion, tyre wear etc. it would seem are very obviously going to be toxic, but I also measure raised PM2.5 from cooking with my electric oven or induction stove (but not burning the food), surely that can’t be quite as bad? And sea spray you would think would be even less harmful…

Re: Where does air pollution come from?

#119

Post by YuriW »

rsynnott wrote: post #82
xlii wrote: post #47

I thought that this article will address an elephant in the room but either it missed it or I missed it. My problem with pollution is that… you need to measure it, and those who pollute don’t do it consciously. Anecdotally I often drive through a small town. You can smell pollution, a plastic smell. In winter you can see column of smoke coming out of chimney. Sometimes it’s milky white, sometimes it thick black. Ther…

> I asked shop keeper is it happening often, she confirmed and said that no one is interested in doing otherwise, installing sensors was directly opposed by town council. One way to address this sort of localism (where there's a significant risk that the owners of the factory are slipping the town councillors the odd brown envelope) is a national regulator. The Irish EPA, which was created to take this sort of thing…

Doesn't seem there is anything done in Dublin or other Irish cities though vs Europe? https://urbanaccessregulations.eu/userhome/map I don't believe Dublin city air is all that clean given that the cars are primary mode of transportation.
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