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Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

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Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#111

Post by saagarjha »

rayiner wrote: post #33
jsbisviewtiful wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isn’t any. The very little research showing any effects on cognitive abilities are experiments using very high fluoride levels - nowhere near the levels in water. Like most conservative “stances”, it’s a farce.

Why did many European countries discontinue fluoridation? https://www.euronews.com/health/2024/11/23/trump-could-push-... > However, in 1973, the Dutch Supreme Court ruled that there was no legal basis for fluoridation…. The debate hasn’t been meaningfully revived since then, Hofman told Euronews Health. "People started to say, ‘Well, the government should not give us some medicine [when] we cannot choose where to bu…

Why does the “little c” conservative look to Europe when convenient, hmm?

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#112

Post by floriannn »

Speedy218 wrote: post #74
jiggawatts wrote: post #44

I initially dismissed it as the same category of stupid as anti-vax beliefs, but it turns out that there are a decent amount of good studies showing a link between fluoride in water and (slightly) lower IQ when pregnant mothers ingest the fluoride. Note that there is no significant effect after birth. The idea is to remove fluoride from water and advise pregnant women to use fluoride-free toothpaste. Everyone else ca…

> but now it is “overmedicating” a vulnerable fraction of the population. Makes sense, but the intention also is that many people do not brush their teeth, or at least do not brush them as often as they should, and so fluoride is added to drinking water to compensate so people's teeth don't start to fall out at an alarming rate.

> many people do not brush their teeth

many? (!!!)

Googling it all I found was one dentist website that said 2%, but didn't seem that reliable

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#113

Post by hattar »

mjevans wrote: post #102
lolinder wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this is one of those places where because RFK Jr took the anti- stand there's an understandable assumption that it's more nutty anti-science stuff, but it's much less clear cut when it comes to fluoridation. Europe has much lower rates than the US, which is an outlier on these stats only approached by Australia, and before Utah the major high profile anti-fluoride stance was made by Portland: https://www.wweek.…

I'd be happier if that broken-but-correct-2x-a-day guy banned HFCS (High Fructose Corn Syrup) instead. It is my personal hypothesis that it is the cause of 'sugar cancer' (general cases of bad sugars / imbalances of sugars in the body), including Diabetes.

Interesting hypothesis, is it based on anything specific? I think refined/added sugars in general are probably something best avoided, but admittedly still eat plenty. The idea that one sugar is materially worse than another feels off, but I can't quite put my finger on why.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#114

Post by freehorse »

jedberg wrote: post #35
stop50 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't they sell toothpaste with flourid in Utah?

Generally kids don't use toothpaste with fluoride because of the risk of swollowing it. Yes, we know it's bad in high doses, which is why kids toothpaste often doesn't have it. You have to wait until they are old enough to spit when brushing. In reality what will happen is that rich kids will be just fine because they will get their fluoride treatments at the dentist every six months. It's the poor kids who will suff…

Kids until which age? Ime somewhere between 4-5 seem to be perfectly able to spit their toothpaste without swallowing. Guidelines in the EU typically suggest normally fluoride toothpaste in increasing amounts after 4.

Also, fluoride helps with remineralisation when it is used pretty much regularly, not once per 6 months. Fluoride treatments once per 6 months are not gonna bring back the enamel lost.

I do not understand what is the big deal here. In many countries there are specific recommendations wrt to fluoride and kids brushing their teeth that seem to work fine. This seems to be a solved issue in many places in the world without fluoridating water.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#115

Post by saagarjha »

Jimmc414 wrote: post #100
jedberg wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally kids don't use toothpaste with fluoride because of the risk of swollowing it. Yes, we know it's bad in high doses, which is why kids toothpaste often doesn't have it. You have to wait until they are old enough to spit when brushing. In reality what will happen is that rich kids will be just fine because they will get their fluoride treatments at the dentist every six months. It's the poor kids who will suff…

You sound concerned about the kids. We are on the same side. There is evidence that fluoridation level is correlated (dose dependent) with sleep problems, lower IQ scores, early onset puberty and bone cancer in children. There are specific areas outside blood brain barrier that it accumulates to the degree of fluoridation (100x to 200x levels of other tissues), all postmortem tests verify this. It is true that many s…

Yes, we should.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#116

Post by saagarjha »

kelipso wrote: post #41
jcranmer wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the saying goes, it's the dose that makes the poison. Vitamin D is also quite toxic, would you celebrate banning that as well?

Yes, there is no need to add vitamin D into the water supply.

Yeah, because it’s not water soluble.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#117

Post by Pigalowda »

XorNot wrote: post #82
dboreham wrote: post #3

You can provide your own flouride (live in a house with well water).

Children can't, and a lifetime of dental issues they didn't have the knowledge or good fortune to have prevented is a serious issue.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluoridation_by_countr...

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#118

Post by cornstalks »

robocat wrote: post #47
jedberg wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of that is due to the Mormons. While they tend to vote Republican, they are some of the biggest socialists out there. They believe in giving 10% of their income to the church (and enforce it!). Then they redistribute to their poorest members in the form of free private education at all pre-college levels and highly subsidized college as well. And with food banks, free or subsidized medical services, and whole b…

> [The Mormons] believe in giving 10% of their income Is that income before tax or after tax? "After tax" seems like it should be obvious, but then wouldn't that require tax specialists to decide how to deal with tax exceptions (retirement taxation incentives, donations, etcetera). If the 10% donation is tax deductible, doesn't that require some mathematics to work out the 10%? Irrelevant aside: I think the efficient…

> Is that income before tax or after tax?

It’s up to personal interpretation. Some do before tax, some do after. Some only pay tithing on their regular income (i.e. from a normal job) but not on “already tithed” income (e.g. birthday money from parents), while others do it differently.

The church’s stance is that they say you should pay 10% tithing on your income. They don’t define income. And all they do is ask “do you pay a full tithe?” And it’s up to you to decide if you do or not based on how you view what “income” means.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#119

Post by viraptor »

mjevans wrote: post #98
apothegm wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly, an alarming percentage of Americans don't drink water. I’ve spoken to way too many people who think water tastes wrong because it’s not sweet enough.

Particularly when traveling, I don't enjoy the taste of tap water. Filtered or (factory filtered then) bottled... and I'm not alone in that viewpoint.

When travelling where? The blanket statement here just doesn't work. Every major area has very different water in the tap. A lot of the bottled water is just tap water from another region.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#120

Post by welder »

timeon wrote: post #76
elif wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fluoridation, imperial measurement, 20% tips, taxes added at the register, and circumcision are the weirdest things Americans think everyone does.

> 20% tips Is this real?

One of the many reasons I left the USA. Too bad US-Americans are so used to tipping 20% they even do it when traveling... giving the rest of us a reputation as being suckers.
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