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A filmmaker and a crooked lawyer shattered Denmark's self-image

theguardian.com

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Re: A filmmaker and a crooked lawyer shattered Denmark's self-image

#111

Post by jajko »

mr_toad wrote: post #95
bufferoverflow wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People are the same everywhere That is absolutely not true. People aren't the same even in adjacent neighborhoods sometimes. Some create great environments, some create hells on earth. Source: I lived in 3 different countries + an isolated island. But you don't even need my biased opinion on the matter. We have cultures that throw gay people off the roofs, and cultures that celebrate them.

> We have cultures that throw gay people off the roofs, and cultures that celebrate them. And you could take single individuals from either culture and drop them in the other culture, and most of them would happily act and think just like the new culture, and swear blind that they’d always thought that way. It would be an interesting experiment to see how many individuals you could replace one-by-one before the cultu…

Hahaha. Take a look at western Europe. Vast majority of the immigrants from neither Africa or Middle east didn't adopt any of the core values of their host country even after decade+. More often than not, even second generation has very different values. What happens is isolated or connected silos of original values surviving a lot of generations.

Just ask Germans or French or Belgian folks, or go there. The idea was exactly what you write, and it failed miserably with no solution in sight.

Just to explain - we have friends among those communities. We like them a lot, but the difference is there even after couple of generations. Its not talked about much, but if you look for it, it shows up. Nobody will talk about this with strangers of course, thats just polite facade.

Re: A filmmaker and a crooked lawyer shattered Denmark's self-image

#112

Post by nolito »

croes wrote: post #59

Will that change Denmark‘s position in the Corruption Perception Index? https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi/2024 I always thought the lower the more realistic

I d'ont. Im portuguese living in Denmark for many years. The difference is just perception.

The portuguese say: "this shitty country is so corrupt". I never encountered any corruption in Portugal.

The danes say: "See we are the best and justest country in the World without corruption". Facts say otherwise. Just google Lars Løkke Rasmussen and take a look at his actions

Re: A filmmaker and a crooked lawyer shattered Denmark's self-image

#113

Post by rafaelmn »

mr_toad wrote: post #95
bufferoverflow wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People are the same everywhere That is absolutely not true. People aren't the same even in adjacent neighborhoods sometimes. Some create great environments, some create hells on earth. Source: I lived in 3 different countries + an isolated island. But you don't even need my biased opinion on the matter. We have cultures that throw gay people off the roofs, and cultures that celebrate them.

> We have cultures that throw gay people off the roofs, and cultures that celebrate them. And you could take single individuals from either culture and drop them in the other culture, and most of them would happily act and think just like the new culture, and swear blind that they’d always thought that way. It would be an interesting experiment to see how many individuals you could replace one-by-one before the cultu…

> and most of them would happily act and think just like the new culture, and swear blind that they’d always thought that way.

If that was true you wouldn't have minority communities isolated within larger ones, they would just naturally mix - but the ones that do are the outliers.

Re: A filmmaker and a crooked lawyer shattered Denmark's self-image

#114

Post by FirmwareBurner »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #104
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>until you talk about legalizing more immigration Maybe because people have been duped so much in the last 10+ years to know that the loaded statement of "more immigration" from the government only means legalizing more ILLEGAL immigration, driving them to hate all forms of immigration because the governments have proven themselves useless at enforcing border controls and depurations of those who brake the law. That'…

Ummm... At least in the US, they are absolutely not worried about law breaking at all. Look who they just elected president? "Law and order" is basically dead here.

Do you want the Orange Man to bring back all those prisoners he sent to EL Salvador? Would you like them in your neighborhood?

Re: A filmmaker and a crooked lawyer shattered Denmark's self-image

#115

Post by amadeuspagel »

milesrout wrote: post #86
jsutter909 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you call going out of your way to buy cigarettes in a lower tax jurisdiction? The word avoidance seems pretty fitting here. Taxes are as voluntary as the activity being taxed

Presumanly is tax evasion if you buy them elsewhere then import them into your country without paying the required import duties.

How about vacationing in a country that has a lower VAT because hotels and everything are cheaper?

Re: A filmmaker and a crooked lawyer shattered Denmark's self-image

#116

Post by murderfs »

arghwhat wrote: post #53
MaxHoppersGhost wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> one would have to be rather daft to assume that a country with such absurdly high taxation did not have tax evasion as a key pastime - although probably not as aggressively as in places like the US The US has lower taxes so by your logic we would have less evasion. Unless you’re making a judgement on Americans.

I am making a judgement on the US corporate culture and population within it, yes. It has far more loopholes that remain open and actively used than Denmark does. Denmark does its very best to make it either a pain in the arse or impossible to use company property in any way that could be seen as having private value. Did you drive home in your company car? Then get ready to be privately taxed of its full market valu…

> Weird US tricks like getting paid in stock and taking loans with that stock as collateral, with the resulting liability cancelling out remaining tax also don't work there.

That's not how the U.S. trick works, it's taking loans with the stock as collateral in order to defer realizing the capital gains while still being able to spend the money. It's no different from just taking out an unsecured loan, it's just that banks are more willing to give you a larger balance/less usurious rates if it's secured by something.

Re: A filmmaker and a crooked lawyer shattered Denmark's self-image

#117

Post by neaden »

ANewFormation wrote: post #99
mr_toad wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We have cultures that throw gay people off the roofs, and cultures that celebrate them. And you could take single individuals from either culture and drop them in the other culture, and most of them would happily act and think just like the new culture, and swear blind that they’d always thought that way. It would be an interesting experiment to see how many individuals you could replace one-by-one before the cultu…

And so if you went to Saudi Arabia you'd pretend to be down with executing people for apostasy? Obviously it's an extreme example but many of the norms of a Western mindset would be no less offensive to billions of people in this world. What bias of moderation exists is that you probably wouldn't migrate to Saudi Arabia unless you were already mostly ok with their values. And if e.g. economic opportunity drove you th…

If you grew up in Saudi Arabia raised by a typical family then yeah sure, you probably would be fine with it. Culture of course shapes people and I think it's silly to pretend you could freely swap adults but that doesn't mean that people are fundamentally different.

Re: A filmmaker and a crooked lawyer shattered Denmark's self-image

#118

Post by jjani »

jajko wrote: post #111
mr_toad wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We have cultures that throw gay people off the roofs, and cultures that celebrate them. And you could take single individuals from either culture and drop them in the other culture, and most of them would happily act and think just like the new culture, and swear blind that they’d always thought that way. It would be an interesting experiment to see how many individuals you could replace one-by-one before the cultu…

Hahaha. Take a look at western Europe. Vast majority of the immigrants from neither Africa or Middle east didn't adopt any of the core values of their host country even after decade+. More often than not, even second generation has very different values. What happens is isolated or connected silos of original values surviving a lot of generations. Just ask Germans or French or Belgian folks, or go there. The idea was…

They were arguably never placed in fact never placed in the culture. There are 24 hours in a day. In what culture does one spend most of those hours?

Imagine if those same people would have been adopted as newborns, by a rural family on a farm in Belgium, France or Germany.

This isn't inherent to Europe, nor to any particular background. I live in Korea. Most Western immigrants here spend most of their time not inside the culture. They both work and relax outside of the dominant culture. If they have children here, and raise them similarly, those children will also have different values. But if they put their child in environments where everyone else is from the dominant culture, for >8 hours per day ever since kindergarten, then that's the values they'll take on.

It all does come down to culture. For what it's worth, I'm originally from Europe, and very familiar with the phenomenon you're talking about.

Someone else here rightly mentioned the internet as changing this somewhat, which has some truth in it - it does affect the probability distribution. But by and large, it still holds.

Re: A filmmaker and a crooked lawyer shattered Denmark's self-image

#119

Post by tomp »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #100
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

*)limiting ILLEGAL immigration, emphasis on the word illegal. Nobody in Europe has a problem with LEGAL immigration, but the left wing parties and MSM keeps ignoring this and sweeping illegal immigration along the legal immigration banner to drive the narrative that Europeans are racists who hate all immigrants in order to justify (social) media censorship and restrictions on free speech to fight the "right wing extr…

They always say that, until you talk about legalizing more immigration, then you find out that no, they don't want any more immigration period.

I don’t think that anyone minds immigration of highly educated people from advanced civilized countries that have aligned values and respect local cultures.

But illegal and legal immigrants from other countries mainly consume taxpayer resources and spread crime and violence.

Re: A filmmaker and a crooked lawyer shattered Denmark's self-image

#120

Post by amanaplanacanal »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #114
amanaplanacanal wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ummm... At least in the US, they are absolutely not worried about law breaking at all. Look who they just elected president? "Law and order" is basically dead here.

Do you want the Orange Man to bring back all those prisoners he sent to EL Salvador? Would you like them in your neighborhood?

I just find it fascinating how some people are perfectly fine with rich criminals, but want to get rid of the poor criminals. It makes me wonder what their real motivations are.
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