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If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

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Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#111

Post by mmastrac »

ianburrell wrote: post #91
mmastrac wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have any way to pull cables between floors, try pulling DAC cables. They give you 10+G, require no splicing (hardware can be found cheap now), and generally just work as you'd expect. With a 10G backbone, you can get away with basement->main and main->upstairs in a three-floor house, with a small bridge on your main floor.

There is no reason to pull DAC when fiber has gotten cheap. Singlemode fiber is cheap enough now that isn't worth doing multimode fiber. You can get pre-terminated fiber that is easier to pulling whole DAC transceiver. DAC is still useful for within rack.

True, though what I like about DAC is that there's far less risk of optical surface damage.

Sure there's ESD risk but I find that much easier to manage.

Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#112

Post by liotier »

msarrel wrote: post #4

Yup, always run extra everything. At least you can splice fiber now. And be careful of the minimum bend radius. Once, in the 90s, we were having intermittent network failures in our data center. I kept trying to troubleshoot it with the fluke, but the problem kept moving. When I pulled up the raised floor, I discovered that rats were eating the exterior sheath of the network cables. That was some fun troubleshooting!

> Yup, always run extra everything

Cables ain't free, duct capacity is finite and duct rental from the local incumbent is costly too... Please calculate the financial optimum of pay now vs. pay later - taking into account growth, various forms of attrition, cost of capital, opportunity costs and appetite for risk. Or everyone would be running 1152 strands cables everywhere.

But then I see that from a telco perspective and, now that I've read the article, it seems to be from a small-scale hosting perspective - entirely different economics.

Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#113

Post by liotier »

timzaman wrote: post #8

1. High-level, the post is all wrong. The point should be that you always need to make sure you can pull new cable . The poster illustrates this: single mode, multi mode, non-fiber, etc, etc. And if one "goes bad", you still can't run a new one, unless you have a pullstring. 2. The post cannot apply to fast/large networks - will be prohibitively expensive. 3. If running a few at home, I suggest to run MTP/MPO. It's b…

> 2. The post cannot apply to fast/large networks - will be prohibitively expensive.

Yes, it is obviously about small-scale sysadmin cabling. Telco networks have wildly different economics.

Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#114

Post by scarby2 »

connicpu wrote: post #105
jagged-chisel wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re using the planet as your “flat surface” then sure. If, however, you’re willing to deal with exiting the atmosphere at each end, you can use Real Straightness. But I don’t know anyone running a single segment for that distance.

If you're going out of the atmosphere may as well skip the fiber and just point lasers through the vacuum of space directly and reap the benefits of the faster speed of light through a vacuum vs glass!

works great until a group of space bats get in the way.

Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#115

Post by dwattttt »

liotier wrote: post #112
msarrel wrote: post #4

Yup, always run extra everything. At least you can splice fiber now. And be careful of the minimum bend radius. Once, in the 90s, we were having intermittent network failures in our data center. I kept trying to troubleshoot it with the fluke, but the problem kept moving. When I pulled up the raised floor, I discovered that rats were eating the exterior sheath of the network cables. That was some fun troubleshooting!

> Yup, always run extra everything Cables ain't free, duct capacity is finite and duct rental from the local incumbent is costly too... Please calculate the financial optimum of pay now vs. pay later - taking into account growth, various forms of attrition, cost of capital, opportunity costs and appetite for risk. Or everyone would be running 1152 strands cables everywhere. But then I see that from a telco perspectiv…

Or, take the money you would spend calculating that, and that's the amount you spend for your margin.

Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#116

Post by terribleperson »

liotier wrote: post #112
msarrel wrote: post #4

Yup, always run extra everything. At least you can splice fiber now. And be careful of the minimum bend radius. Once, in the 90s, we were having intermittent network failures in our data center. I kept trying to troubleshoot it with the fluke, but the problem kept moving. When I pulled up the raised floor, I discovered that rats were eating the exterior sheath of the network cables. That was some fun troubleshooting!

> Yup, always run extra everything Cables ain't free, duct capacity is finite and duct rental from the local incumbent is costly too... Please calculate the financial optimum of pay now vs. pay later - taking into account growth, various forms of attrition, cost of capital, opportunity costs and appetite for risk. Or everyone would be running 1152 strands cables everywhere. But then I see that from a telco perspectiv…

Duct capacity is finite, but fiber cables are tiny and they are very nearly free compared to the cost of having them run.

Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#117

Post by bloomingeek »

david422 wrote: post #23
bhouston wrote: post #14

Yeah, we got a new house built 4 years ago and one of the biggest regrets is not enough ethernet outlets (running fibre in the house isn't practical yet) and power outlets in various places. It is really hard to think of all the places you would want them ahead of time unfortunately and as each has a cost you don't want to incur it unnecessarily. But my biggest regrets were: - Only a single ethernet port in the basem…

> Only a single ethernet port in the basement. Then the kid wanted a gaming station and we moved where the TV was. I should have put like 4 down there. Just drop a switch down there.

Friendly reminder: newer modem, router (especially for wireless), cat cable and fast speed switches really make a difference. I had the fastest speed my ISP could provide, but then discovered I needed to upgrade some of my equipment. It made all the difference in the world, especially cat 6e cable.

Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#118

Post by terribleperson »

nkurz wrote: post #65
mjevans wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO a not-tiny house should have several sub-panels: Kitchen (enough to run the big stove + ~100A, but every outlet it's own 20A circuit), 'lab' / workshop (same idea), laundry room (lock-out breaker near / in room for connecting / disconnecting), etc. A family member who's doing better in life than I am purchased a house built within the last 5 years, and it didn't even _have_ Ethernet run anywhere. WHY!?! I can't f…

> A family member who's doing better in life than I am purchased a house built within the last 5 years, and it didn't even _have_ Ethernet run anywhere. WHY!?! I can't fathom how it's possible anyone would find that a negative. I'm less sure. Are there any 40 year old cables that you'd consider a positive in your house today? 20 year old cables? I wouldn't be too excited about having a house full of Coax, 10Base-T, a…

Cat6 is twenty years old and still entirely usable today in a residential setting.

Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#119

Post by ghaff »

liotier wrote: post #112
msarrel wrote: post #4

Yup, always run extra everything. At least you can splice fiber now. And be careful of the minimum bend radius. Once, in the 90s, we were having intermittent network failures in our data center. I kept trying to troubleshoot it with the fluke, but the problem kept moving. When I pulled up the raised floor, I discovered that rats were eating the exterior sheath of the network cables. That was some fun troubleshooting!

> Yup, always run extra everything Cables ain't free, duct capacity is finite and duct rental from the local incumbent is costly too... Please calculate the financial optimum of pay now vs. pay later - taking into account growth, various forms of attrition, cost of capital, opportunity costs and appetite for risk. Or everyone would be running 1152 strands cables everywhere. But then I see that from a telco perspectiv…

And while some people preach hard-wired everything I’d probably increasingly not bother at home. . I’ll have to see how much networking and audio stuff I even do given a kitchen fire with s

Re: If you get the chance, always run more extra network fiber cabling

#120

Post by protocolture »

I recall working in a building that:

1. Was the former HQ for a local telecom company 2. Was now an office building with a couple floors of data.

Ages ago, one of the DC providers in the building had run 36 cores to the roof to service a telco.

It was a massive undertaking, the building is riddled with asbestos and old plant. Had multiple renovations etc.

Anyway, a few years later, every telco in the state wanted to be on that rooftop. And they had the only reliable means to service it with fibre. That 36 core became a massive profit generating asset, one that they could have monetised even further if they had have run 100 core instead. But it was never feasible to drill holes for a new duct (Asbestos regulations getting tighter), and it was never feasible to shut down 12 telcos for a day to use the existing fibre as a draw cable.

Getting a single core rented here, and throwing on Bidi's, was like mana from the gods at the time.

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