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France rejects backdoor mandate

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Re: France rejects backdoor mandate

#111

Post by hollerith »

tiltowait wrote: post #108
Nextgrid wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "war" on drugs is what brings all of the violence and crime associated with drugs, not the drugs themselves. But it finances the police industrial complex and so many people would lose out (or be forced to focus on actual crimes rather than people consensually trading plants or chemicals) that it will never happen.

> The "war" on drugs is what brings all of the violence and crime associated with drugs, not the drugs themselves. Some of it, certainly, but I doubt it's all. Violence committed by druggies trying to scrape up enough for their next hit would still happen.

Also, violence caused by a sociopath's giving a desperate addict $50 in exchange for the addict's shooting one of the sociopath's enemies would still happen.

Also, addicts stealing from their moms would still happen, which is regrettable even if it is not violence.

Re: France rejects backdoor mandate

#112

Post by dadoum »

eastbound wrote: post #95
achenet wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moi aussi je suis francais. > French want less criminals and immigrants in the street. Whatever it takes. Maybe it's because I spent most of my time in big cities hanging out with relatively well-educated, often left-leaning, relatively young people, but I'm not getting that vibe at all. Yes, you do have pathological cases of badly integrated immigrant communities - for example the quartiers Nord de Marseille, and ye…

[flagged]

> Your lack of empathy for others is always baffling for me. “I haven’t had problems with occupants, therefore they are not a problem.”

They just said that they hadn't observed the same thing in their entourage.

> Some had to crawl, bleeding on the floor, reciting to Coran.

Are you referring to a recent event in France? Can't find any with the query "réciter coran otage". That quote makes France look like a war zone.

> Some pupils grow under oppression, having to donate their lunch meal every day.

> Some had to give their mobile phone.

Are you making a link with "occupants" from the first sentence? Because bullying and assault didn't wait for immigration to exist, and criminality in general is caused by so much factors that makes the analysis harder than just looking at correlations.

> some people are thrown in the Seine.

Search for "jeté dans la Seine" (thrown in the Seine):

- [20 years ago] Brahim Bouraam: murder of a Moroccan in Paris by a far-right militant [0]

- [5 days ago] A jogger thrown into the Seine by a drunken German, another bystander injured [1]

I don't think you referred to those actions.

> But as long as you give occupants priority and respect in your life, and you respect them

Nobody said something remotely related to that in the thread.

> don’t say anything about the occupied zone

...

I hope that you can still find some enjoyment in the dystopian alternate reality you're experiencing.

PS: I lived in a hot district. I haven't been assaulted but I know someone who has been. It hasn't been perpetrated by an immigrant, and nothing happened after. He hasn't been caught, police closed the case, and life went on. It makes me think the problem here is not related to immigrants. But that's anecdata anyway. A study apparently found no correlation between immigration and criminality [2].

[0]: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affaire_Brahim_Bouraam

[1]: https://www.20minutes.fr/faits_divers/faits-divers-paris/414...

[2]: https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2023/04/23/no-study...

Re: France rejects backdoor mandate

#113

Post by [deleted] »

buybackoff wrote: post #12

I've found the original debates video on the National Assembly website. My French is good enough for that (not enough for cooking et al. though), so I believe I understood. I'm positively surprised by some deputies remarks. But Bruno (interior minister) Retailleau is either totally incompetent technically, with his advisors as well, or is a liar. "We will apply the math selectively, only for those that are a threat a…

[deleted]

Re: France rejects backdoor mandate

#114

Post by buybackoff »

Cyph0n wrote: post #102
buybackoff wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cela s'appelle la laïcité. If you have problems with that there are so many 3rd world countries that care about medieval stuff more than development. I think laïcité is one of the coolest words/concept, France should only really enforce it further.

Whatever floats your boat. But claiming that France is the pinnacle of maintaining individual freedoms contradicts with a nanny state that polices religious expression. You can’t have it both ways.

It's water that floats anyone's boats. It's the physics+linguistics. The problems start when people try to substitute the meaning of things.

Re: France rejects backdoor mandate

#115

Post by [deleted] »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #22
buybackoff wrote: post #12

I've found the original debates video on the National Assembly website. My French is good enough for that (not enough for cooking et al. though), so I believe I understood. I'm positively surprised by some deputies remarks. But Bruno (interior minister) Retailleau is either totally incompetent technically, with his advisors as well, or is a liar. "We will apply the math selectively, only for those that are a threat a…

France is in decay with incompetent and unpatriotic governments for decades. It is facing many issues but has lacked strong leadership courageous enough to put country first. So, in fact, it is a fairly typical European country... The spread of "narcotrafic" is an example of that, there are others. If you follow French news you'll see many.

[deleted]

Re: France rejects backdoor mandate

#116

Post by daniel-s »

palata wrote: post #3

Just like for other big challenges like biodiversity and climate change, it feels like it often boils down to the politicians just not understanding enough to take rational decisions. Of course they can't all have a PhD in cryptography, but they should also not have no clue at all. Over an over again, politicians are asking for backdoors. To me it just proves that they don't understand the very basic of how encryptio…

These aren't dumb people. They know exactly what they're asking for. Privacy and security of the public's data is not a priority to them, surveillance and power is. Politicians would much prefer all communication in plaintext, to hell with individual freedoms and privacy, especially European politicians that don't come from the same traditions of freedom as the anglophone countries.

What politician do you expect to openly confess the above in public. These are world-leading politicians, i.e., professional athletes of lying and obfuscation.

Re: France rejects backdoor mandate

#117

Post by theshackleford »

_ache_ wrote: post #105
eastbound wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

What is an occupant ? There used to be a increase of crime but it was because of what the law counts as a crime. And no, non-lethal crime didn't increase so it is not about medicine that is getting better. https://oscj2.cesdip.fr/agressions/

Its their clever little dog whistle.

Re: France rejects backdoor mandate

#118

Post by makeitdouble »

achenet wrote: post #99
buybackoff wrote: post #12

I've found the original debates video on the National Assembly website. My French is good enough for that (not enough for cooking et al. though), so I believe I understood. I'm positively surprised by some deputies remarks. But Bruno (interior minister) Retailleau is either totally incompetent technically, with his advisors as well, or is a liar. "We will apply the math selectively, only for those that are a threat a…

As a Frenchman, this really grinds my gears. Our state is already one of the biggest arms dealers on the planet, and, like all modern nation states, fundamentally a coercive protection racket (note that I don't actually have a problem with coercive protection rackets. You remember that scene in The Godfather where everyone is thanking Vito Corleone as he saunters through the street? That's me thanking the French welf…

> Why don't we just get in on the drug trade ourselves, undercut the dealers

That was tobacco, but they blew it by never going for alternatives nor providing healthier/better products. With the pharma knowledge we have now, we surely could have developed a legally acceptable drug with few enough downsides.

Otherwise, they are of course getting in on the drug trade, just not under the framework we'd want to:

https://www.brut.media/fr/articles/cocaine-11-policiers-juge...

Re: France rejects backdoor mandate

#119

Post by zelphirkalt »

palata wrote: post #3

Just like for other big challenges like biodiversity and climate change, it feels like it often boils down to the politicians just not understanding enough to take rational decisions. Of course they can't all have a PhD in cryptography, but they should also not have no clue at all. Over an over again, politicians are asking for backdoors. To me it just proves that they don't understand the very basic of how encryptio…

The problem is, that many of the politicians in high positions are corrupt, bought by companies, and/or only went into politics, because they couldn't get a productive job. There are politicians, who never in their life had a proper job, were born wealthy and never had to work like someone in a productive proper job has to.

There may be exceptions, of course, but over and over again, when one checks the background of politicians in high positions, one finds out, that they simply inherited a lot, and never worked in the field they are making decisions about, nor actually in any other field. They "just became politicians". And even then they misuse funds, cars for private trips, first class tickets on means of transportation, let themselves be bought by lobbies, have prospect of some corporate board later, have even more side income than they are being already paid for their badly done job as a politician, and so on and on. Many one could outright call despicable.

The problem is, that we let them do it. Going into politics is such a clusterf' that no normal person even wants to do it any longer. It only attracts those kinds of person we see there. Others are sidelined or never join politics in the first place. Then we also don't vote/kick/protest them out of office the moment we hear about their crimes.

Re: France rejects backdoor mandate

#120

Post by latexr »

palata wrote: post #3

Just like for other big challenges like biodiversity and climate change, it feels like it often boils down to the politicians just not understanding enough to take rational decisions. Of course they can't all have a PhD in cryptography, but they should also not have no clue at all. Over an over again, politicians are asking for backdoors. To me it just proves that they don't understand the very basic of how encryptio…

> To me it just proves that they don't understand the very basic of how encryption works.

Hanlon’s razor isn’t always true, sometimes it really is malice. Considering EU ministers want to exempt themselves from Chat Control, that suggests to me they do understand enough of the basics.

https://european-pirateparty.eu/chatcontrol-eu-ministers-wan...

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