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Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

reuters.com

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Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#111

Post by srslythrowaway »

hackyhacky wrote: post #93
srslythrowaway wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

So you don't support freedom of speech? Or you support it only for people who agree with you? Do you believe the government should pressure institutions to punish people who express messages the government doesn't like? It's interesting that Columbia protesters get their degrees revoked but J6 protesters get pardons. How do you explain the difference?

J6 protestors are lawbreakers. IMO, they should not get pardons, but Trump is a despot with the power to issue pardons. I can't do anything about that.

The people at Columbia were not mere "protestors". They were physically abusive bigots who trampled the freedoms of people around them. If they were Jews chanting islamophobic slurs, destroying property, and preventing anyone with a keffiyeh from attending class, they should suffer the same consequences.

I get that "peaceful protest" can be seen as an oxymoron. But what happened at Columbia should have been stopped the moment it started. It is bigotry. It is hypocrisy. But even if you ignore the moral and ethical failings, it was against the rules.

Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#112

Post by setopt »

upofadown wrote: post #89
overfeed wrote: post #31

In other, recent, non-related news, Columbia University revoked the diplomas of some pro-Palestine protestors[1]. The CBS headline buries the lede, but revoking diplomas is not too low for American universities. 1. https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/columbia-university-pro...

How would they revoke someone's degree in either country? Do they break into someone's house and steal the piece of paper? A degree is awarded by the institution but I don't see how they could then claim that they did not meet the requirements for the degree retroactively absent some proof of academic misconduct. What possible difference would such a renovation make to anyone outside the university?

> What possible difference would such a renovation make to anyone outside the university?

In some places, potential employers call the university to verify that you have the degree you claimed to prevent fraud. If so, the university can simply tell them the degree had been revoked thus blocking you from a job offer if it requires it.

Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#113

Post by srslythrowaway »

cpursley wrote: post #95
srslythrowaway wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

We already have laws on the books to deal with physical violence. As for verbal abuse, welcome to America - aka sticks and stones country (as guaranteed by our constitution). Anyways, why should a particular faith get special privileges?

When people physically block your access to classes you paid for, on a campus you have an equal right to be at, and they're blocking you on the basis of your faith or ethnicity, that's not "sticks and stones".

Edit: clarity about the basis

Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#114

Post by hiddencost »

bawolff wrote: post #77
overfeed wrote: post #31

In other, recent, non-related news, Columbia University revoked the diplomas of some pro-Palestine protestors[1]. The CBS headline buries the lede, but revoking diplomas is not too low for American universities. 1. https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/columbia-university-pro...

From the article it sounds like they were revoked due to causing property damage to the university. Even if you disagree with that move, it seems like a rather different situation.

[flagged]

Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#115

Post by cadamsdotcom »

amadeuspagel wrote: post #34

The really interesting news here is that in Turkey you need a degree to run for president.

Turkish law experts: say some other university grants an honorary degree in response to this.

Would that make him compliant again to run for office?

Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#116

Post by srslythrowaway »

arunabha wrote: post #96
srslythrowaway wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It's clear that you hold these positions pretty strongly, and there is nothing wrong with that. However, I am wondering why you felt compelled to post your closely held personal positions from a throwaway account? It minimizes the statement quite a bit and makes it looks like a drive by posting.

Because I have a life and I have no desire to become a target for the mob, "woke" or otherwise. This is a sensitive subject. People hate. Anonymity here allows me to speak my mind in safety. It's the opposite of drive-by posting.

Also, I don't need people digging into my identity and using that to deconstruct what I say.

Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#117

Post by matthewdgreen »

bawolff wrote: post #90
cjbgkagh wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think in such situations it can be withheld but not withdrawn, it's pretty common for universities to hold back credentials until debts are paid. But once it's been given I think the only scenario which it can be withdrawn is if it was given under fraudulent circumstances. Like a newspaper retraction, it can only be retracted if the original statement was found to be false. The perpetrator should be sued for damage…

I actually tend to agree with this (once its given i think morally its too late to take it away, except maybe if they cheated). I still think its a totally different situation than the turkey one though.

They are both situations in which a University was politically pressured by the government to revoke degrees for political purposes. The difference is just the specific goals of the government doing the pressuring. You don’t think Columbia just coincidentally decided to take this action months after the fact, after having its funding pulled by the US administration, do you?

Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#118

Post by srslythrowaway »

beepbooptheory wrote: post #104
srslythrowaway wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Doesn't the sheer amount of dissonance make you think twice though? Maybe just a little bit? Consider the commitments you need to make and secondary beliefs you need to have, just to keep this narrative alive right now. You have pretty much implied this point yourself. I can't truly imagine what it must be like to live in the world you do, and I am sorry. I mean, the world is not much better for the other side I gues…

Thankfully I enjoy anonymity behind my throwaway handle.

There is no justification for mobs chanting for the death of me and mine. Their coded slogans are not very coded. "Anti-genocide" protests who call for genocide are not honest nor legitimate.

There is not justification why several decades after Brown v Board of Education, there needs to be any gray area around equal access. A durable mob preventing people from feeling safe going to classes they paid for is no different from the KKK. No matter whose politics they espouse.

You're not _truly_ sorry if you're concern trolling. The Israel/Palestine conflict is my lived experience of nearly half a century. My opinions are opinions, but they are very far from uninformed. I have no way to prove this to you.

Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#119

Post by spwa4 »

BurningFrog wrote: post #85
sneak wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you murder someone on the campus of the university , then yes, they might cancel your degree.

The diploma says you've successfully completed an education, and has the knowledge and skills it should confer. Murdering a professor doesn't change that fact, so from a strict logical standpoint it should not be affected. That said, I don't really have a problem if they do.

The theory put up is that your behavior in university, before you get the diploma does matter. If you get expelled due to an action you took before the diploma was granted, the diploma may be revoked, even if that decision is made after the diploma is already in your hands. This is true. If you're caught cheating or commit a crime your diploma may get revoked, including in the situation that you already have the paper in hand.

In that sense this is not revoking a diploma, it's just applying the punishment for what they did before they graduated.

And while obviously Columbia's actions are politically motivated, I still don't think it's remotely comparable with what's happening in Turkey. The New York protestors really are being punished for what they did, and not to prevent them from running for election (which most of them couldn't do anyway, as you cannot do that on a visa, I don't think even a green card lets you hold public office)

Re: Turkish university annuls Erdogan rival's degree, preventing run for president

#120

Post by matthewdgreen »

trentnix wrote: post #67
pmags wrote: post #48

The Trump administration is similarly trying to purge / stifle academic institutions and bend them to their uses. For example, the Trump administration has told Columbia to dissolve specific academic departments. See this earlier discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43358925 The US and Turkish governments are operating under the same authoritarian rules of engagement, it's just that the Turks are further…

Less than a year ago multiple States attempted to remove Trump from the Presidential ballot. That’s the closer analogue to the shenanigans in Turkey, not the attempted equivalence you’re trying to make.

And they were blocked from doing so. Despite at least having a more reasonable case rooted in the actual text of the UE constitution.
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