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uv downloads overtake Poetry for Wagtail users

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Re: uv downloads overtake Poetry for Wagtail users

#111

Post by dagw »

datadeft wrote: post #99
dagw wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UV is not (yet) a build system and does not get involved with compiling code. But easily lets you plug in any build system you want. So it will let you keep using whatever system you are currently using for building your C libraries. For example I use scikit-build-core for building all of my libraries C and C++ components with cmake and it works fine with uv.

uv build Building source distribution... running egg_info writing venv.egg-info/PKG-INFO Successfully built dist/venv-0.1.0.tar.gz Successfully built dist/venv-0.1.0-py3-none-any.whl

I guess it depends on what you mean by a build system. From my understanding uv build basically just bundles up all the source code it finds, and packages it into a .whl with the correct metadata. It cannot actually do any build steps like running commands to compile or transform code or data in any way. For that you need something like setuptools or scikit-build or similar. All of which integrate seamlessly with uv.

Re: uv downloads overtake Poetry for Wagtail users

#112

Post by freeamz »

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #14
freeamz wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about using https://github.com/RustPython/RustPython also?

Unlike uv this tool is unlikely to solve problems for the average Python user and most likely will create new ones.

Agree, however for user who want to get faster speed out of python wouldn't that just work with rustpython? It can also run in the browser then.

Re: uv downloads overtake Poetry for Wagtail users

#113

Post by DHolzer »

I recently checked out UV, and it's impressively fast. However, one challenge that keeps coming up is handling anything related to CUDA and Torch.

Last week, I started developing directly in PyTorch containers using just pip and Docker. With GPU forwarding on Windows no longer being such a hassle, I'm really enjoying the setup. Still, I can’t shake the feeling that I might be overlooking something critical.

I’d love to hear what the HN crowd thinks about this type of env.

Re: uv downloads overtake Poetry for Wagtail users

#114

Post by amelius »

dagw wrote: post #102
amelius wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But for example, if I install the Python package "shapely", it will need a C package named GEOS as a shared library. How do I ensure that the version of GEOS on my system is the one shapely wants? By trial and error? And how does that work with environments, where I have different versions of packages in different places? It sounds a bit messy to me, compared to a solution where everything is managed by a single pack…

You are describing two different problems. Do you want a shapely package that runs on your system or do you want to compile shapely against the GEOS on your system. In case 1 it is up to the package maintainer to package and ship a version of GEOS that works with your OS, python version, and library version. If you look at the shapely page on pypi you'll see something like 40 packages for each version covering most p…

In the first case, how does the package maintainer know which version of libc to use? It should use the one that my system uses (because I might also use other libraries that are provided by my system).

Re: uv downloads overtake Poetry for Wagtail users

#115

Post by Etheryte »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #87
Etheryte wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This argument makes no sense. Your dependencies don't change unless you change them, npm doesn't magically update things underneath you. Things can break when you try to update one thing or another, yes, but if you just take an old project and try and run it, it will work.

Assuming the downloads still exist? Does NPM cache all versions it ever distributed? That's always one major thing I saw breaking old builds: old binaries stop being hosted, forcing you to rebuild them from old source, which no longer builds under current toolchains - making you either downgrade the toolchain that itself may be tricky to set up, or upgrade the library, which starts a cascade of dependency upgrades. I…

> Does NPM cache all versions it ever distributed?

Yes it does, that's the whole point. You can still go and install the first version of express ever put on npm from 12 years ago. You can also install any of the 282 releases of it that have ever been put on npm since then. That's the whole point of a registry, it wouldn't be useful if things just disappeared at some random point in time.

The only packages that get removed are malware and such, and packages which the vendor themselves manually unpublish [0]. The latter has a bunch of rules to ensure packages that are actually used don't get removed, please see the link below.

[0] https://docs.npmjs.com/policies/unpublish

Re: uv downloads overtake Poetry for Wagtail users

#116

Post by jerrygenser »

DHolzer wrote: post #113

I recently checked out UV, and it's impressively fast. However, one challenge that keeps coming up is handling anything related to CUDA and Torch. Last week, I started developing directly in PyTorch containers using just pip and Docker. With GPU forwarding on Windows no longer being such a hassle, I'm really enjoying the setup. Still, I can’t shake the feeling that I might be overlooking something critical. I’d love…

I've used uv with pytorch and cuda fine. What problem have you had?

I also use it in docker to build the container.

Re: uv downloads overtake Poetry for Wagtail users

#117

Post by rmholt »

bsdz wrote: post #77

I feel for me, at least one nice thing about poetry over uv is, that if I have an issue or feature extension, I can just write my own plugin in pure Python. With uv, I'd need to learn Rust in addition to python/c/c++/etc. I wonder what it would take to get poetry on par with uv for those who are already switching to it? Poetry is definitely very slow downloading multiple versions of packages to determine dependencies…

For me personally the killer uv feature is pyenv integration, which poetry doesn't do

Re: uv downloads overtake Poetry for Wagtail users

#118

Post by chippiewill »

freeamz wrote: post #112
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike uv this tool is unlikely to solve problems for the average Python user and most likely will create new ones.

Agree, however for user who want to get faster speed out of python wouldn't that just work with rustpython? It can also run in the browser then.

RustPython is just an interpreter written in Rust. There's no reason why it would be meaningfully faster than CPython just because it's written in Rust rather than C. Rust adds memory safety, not necessarily speed.

A new and immature interpreter is going to have other problems:

- Lack of compatibility with CPython - Not up to date with latest version features - Incompatibility with CPython extensions

RustPython is a cool project, but it's not reached the big time yet.

Re: uv downloads overtake Poetry for Wagtail users

#119

Post by dagw »

amelius wrote: post #91
matrss wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what I mean, in this case pip, uv, etc. are the wrong tool to use. You could e.g. use pixi and install all python and non-python dependencies through that, the conda-forge package of shapely will pull in geos as a dependency. Pixi also interoperates with uv as a library to be able to combine PyPI and conda-forge packages using one tool. But conda-forge packages (just like PyPI packages, or anything that does i…

Indeed, I'd want something where I have more control over how the binaries are built. I had some segfaults with conda in the past, and couldn't find where the problem was until I rebuilt everything from scratch manually and the problems went away. Nix/guix sound interesting. But one of my systems is an nVidia Jetson system, where I'm tied to the system's libc version (because of CUDA libraries etc.) and so building t…

with uv (and pip) you can pass the --no-binary flag and it will download the source code and build all you dependencies, rather than downloading prebuilt binaries.

It should also respect any CFLAGS and LDFLAGS you set, but I haven't actually tested that with uv.

Re: uv downloads overtake Poetry for Wagtail users

#120

Post by chippiewill »

qwertox wrote: post #104
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

uv does not ship system libraries because pypi does not have them. There is a philosophical difference between pypi and conda today. I believe over time pypi will likely ship some system libraries but we will see.

So uv is resticted to pypi but does offer isolated Python installations, with precompiled Python binaries?

Yeah it has precompiled Python binaries. They're custom standalone builds of CPython: https://github.com/astral-sh/python-build-standalone

You can also import existing Python versions into uv, for example on my Mac it has imported the Homebrew versions.

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