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Leaked VA memo calls for up to 83,000 layoffs to reduce workforce to 2019 levels

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Re: Leaked VA memo calls for up to 83,000 layoffs to reduce workforce to 2019 levels

#111

Post by lenerdenator »

bpt3 wrote: post #96
lenerdenator wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The upper classes, especially given a disproportionate percentage live in places like NYC and CA, are carrying EU-levels of tax burden already. And? They can afford more, and taxation is a way to reintroduce actual risk of financial ruin for the wealthy. If financial ruin is a good motivator for the rest of us, it should be for them, too. It's not about percentage, it's about the reality that taxation brings about…

It's very convenient to sign other people up to pay for your preferred government services and I'm sure your peers are willing to eagerly pat you on the back for your generosity, but ultimately even taxing the wealthy at 100% won't cover the deficit no matter how good it would make you feel. That's the "And". There's a reason nearly every developed nation has a VAT.

>It's very convenient to sign other people up to pay for your preferred government services and I'm sure your peers are willing to eagerly pat you on the back for your generosity, but ultimately even taxing the wealthy at 100% won't cover the deficit no matter how good it would make you feel.

Other people sign me up to pay for their preferred government services all the time. It's called living in a civilization. And don't get me started on the retirees getting a slice of my labor because they have a piece of paper saying they own part of my company.

I'm under no illusion that taxing at 100% would cover the deficit. It'd probably mean a better financial picture for the government, though, and if this whole national debt thing is the existential threat that fiscal conservatives say it is, well, is any improvement not good?

Re: Leaked VA memo calls for up to 83,000 layoffs to reduce workforce to 2019 levels

#112

Post by seanmcdirmid »

bpt3 wrote: post #97
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we go by total tax burden (including VAT, sales tax, property tax, income tax): https://taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-do-us-taxes-co... Denmark is the highest at 45%, compared to America's 27%. Switzerland, the only European country I've lived in, is just a hair above the USA at 28/29%. UK is only a few points above that, while France is just below Denmark. So I guess it really depends?

Yes, it depends on the country. but the European average is well above the US. Also, the US has a more progressive federal income tax code than Europe (or every other developed country), so the tax burden in the US is carried more by the upper class than it is in those other countries, resulting in the average middle class American paying significantly lower taxes than a peer in Europe.

You've got to compute the entire package. One reason Switzerland comes in around the USA is that they require health insurance and retirement to be funded by the user (mandatory, this system is what Obama/RomneyCare was actually based off of). Denmark uses taxes instead, so their rate looks higher. You can't just make broad assumptions that taxation is for the same thing.

Re: Leaked VA memo calls for up to 83,000 layoffs to reduce workforce to 2019 levels

#113

Post by hello_moto »

jakeogh wrote: post #11
hello_moto wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the Government, and I'm here to help That pretty much sums up the difference between USA vs the rest of Western countries. In the US, People are protecting themselves from their own Government. Other Western Countries, The Government is there to protect the people (and the people understand this).

... until they outlaw silent prayer?

Man you need to share the whole story not just cuts here and there for narratives.

Do better.

Re: Leaked VA memo calls for up to 83,000 layoffs to reduce workforce to 2019 levels

#114

Post by bpt3 »

lenerdenator wrote: post #111
bpt3 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very convenient to sign other people up to pay for your preferred government services and I'm sure your peers are willing to eagerly pat you on the back for your generosity, but ultimately even taxing the wealthy at 100% won't cover the deficit no matter how good it would make you feel. That's the "And". There's a reason nearly every developed nation has a VAT.

>It's very convenient to sign other people up to pay for your preferred government services and I'm sure your peers are willing to eagerly pat you on the back for your generosity, but ultimately even taxing the wealthy at 100% won't cover the deficit no matter how good it would make you feel. Other people sign me up to pay for their preferred government services all the time. It's called living in a civilization. And…

> Other people sign me up to pay for their preferred government services all the time. It's called living in a civilization.

Unless you're one of the wealthy you're talking about (which would be odd to say the least), no one is asking you to pay for government services for somewhere between dozens to thousands of your fellow citizens who pay approximately $0 federal income tax on average, so it's not the same.

> And don't get me started on the retirees getting a slice of my labor because they have a piece of paper saying they own part of my company.

Hint: it's not actually your company. Those people actually employ you.

> I'm under no illusion that taxing at 100% would cover the deficit. It'd probably mean a better financial picture for the government, though, and if this whole national debt thing is the existential threat that fiscal conservatives say it is, well, is any improvement not good?

Confiscatory tax rates are counterproductive, other than making the envious far left feel better about themselves.

Re: Leaked VA memo calls for up to 83,000 layoffs to reduce workforce to 2019 levels

#115

Post by bpt3 »

acdha wrote: post #109
bpt3 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How exactly is cutting VA headcount back to 2019 numbers "throwing a wrench into our economic engine"? This is why we end up with indiscriminate and thoughtless cuts, because the alternative is people who seem to believe that every penny of government spending is absolutely essential the second after the line item is conceived, and the only way to fix any issues that exist is with more spending.

That’s 80k people suddenly, thoughtlessly forced to stop contributing to the economy. In some areas, stable federal jobs are the backbone of the local economy and surprise cuts like that mean that small businesses fold and home prices fall because people can’t make mortgage payments without jobs which aren’t there (this was brutal in San Diego in the early 90s because whole neighborhoods near the big defense contract…

> If you wanted to cut things responsibly, you’d plan it in advance and think about how to avoid shocking the economy into a recession.

Absolutely. I in no way support what DOGE is doing.

But when people think cuts are needed (and the majority of Americans seem to think that's the case), and the options are your position that the country would seemingly collapse if a single job was cut and someone who is going to take a figurative chainsaw to the federal budget, don't be surprised when the chainsaw wins due to your refusal to compromise on your unreasonable and largely unpopular position.

Re: Leaked VA memo calls for up to 83,000 layoffs to reduce workforce to 2019 levels

#116

Post by bpt3 »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #112
bpt3 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it depends on the country. but the European average is well above the US. Also, the US has a more progressive federal income tax code than Europe (or every other developed country), so the tax burden in the US is carried more by the upper class than it is in those other countries, resulting in the average middle class American paying significantly lower taxes than a peer in Europe.

You've got to compute the entire package. One reason Switzerland comes in around the USA is that they require health insurance and retirement to be funded by the user (mandatory, this system is what Obama/RomneyCare was actually based off of). Denmark uses taxes instead, so their rate looks higher. You can't just make broad assumptions that taxation is for the same thing.

People do. Americans come out well ahead on disposable income.

You keep comparing the US to Switzerland, which is a giant outlier in Europe and probably the most like the US in many ways (as you pointed out), when you should be comparing it to France, Germany, and all the other larger EU states with a stagnant economy and populations that have gotten substantially poorer relative to the US over the last 20+ years.

Also, because healthcare in the US is such a disaster, we do pay about what many other countries pay for socialized medicine via taxes, and then basically everyone under 65 (aka the people who cost way less to insure) have to pay for it again in the private sector.

If we could get that under control, there would be no competition economically.

Re: Leaked VA memo calls for up to 83,000 layoffs to reduce workforce to 2019 levels

#117

Post by bpt3 »

acdha wrote: post #99
bpt3 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it depends on the country. but the European average is well above the US. Also, the US has a more progressive federal income tax code than Europe (or every other developed country), so the tax burden in the US is carried more by the upper class than it is in those other countries, resulting in the average middle class American paying significantly lower taxes than a peer in Europe.

Most of that difference disappears when you consider insurance premiums and retirement, however. I compared a few countries when a Danish mentioned that they weren’t really seeing a huge difference and you have to be in the top few percentiles for high American healthcare costs not to cancel out the tax savings, and by their account it was a far less stressful process to get care as well.

Some of it disappears but not all, and the Danes are doing well economically. The Spanish, French, etc. not so much.

Re: Leaked VA memo calls for up to 83,000 layoffs to reduce workforce to 2019 levels

#118

Post by seanmcdirmid »

bpt3 wrote: post #116
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've got to compute the entire package. One reason Switzerland comes in around the USA is that they require health insurance and retirement to be funded by the user (mandatory, this system is what Obama/RomneyCare was actually based off of). Denmark uses taxes instead, so their rate looks higher. You can't just make broad assumptions that taxation is for the same thing.

People do. Americans come out well ahead on disposable income. You keep comparing the US to Switzerland, which is a giant outlier in Europe and probably the most like the US in many ways (as you pointed out), when you should be comparing it to France, Germany, and all the other larger EU states with a stagnant economy and populations that have gotten substantially poorer relative to the US over the last 20+ years. Al…

I've only ever lived in Switzerland and none of the other European countries. But I remember visiting France and Germany...things are so cheap there compared to Swiss! You could eat out and not pay 100CHF per person. I do have friends in other parts of Europe (e.g. NL, DE, DK, FR) and while they like our salaries, they don't really like our costs.

> If we could get that under control, there would be no competition economically.

I don't think America would be the same if it did, and I don't think Europeans are pining for "American success" even if you discount our broken healthcare system.

Re: Leaked VA memo calls for up to 83,000 layoffs to reduce workforce to 2019 levels

#119

Post by blindriver »

oooyay wrote: post #110
blindriver wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you know NOTHING about ketamine or psilosibin therapy and are just talking hot air. Unlike SSRIs which changes brain chemistry and you need to be on it for the rest of your lives, most people suffering from PTSD recover after a single treatment. That's why ketamine and psilsobin therapy is being pushed by everyone who cares about veteran suicides. Educate yourself.

I do happen to know a thing or two about them. They're just not silver bullets for veteran suicide, PTSD, or cPTSD in the way you're describing them. They help and should be available for sure. I've advocated for them in the past on this very forum. > most people suffering from PTSD recover after a single treatment. That is incorrect. Ketamine therapy for PTSD or cPTSD (what most at the VA have) requires years of tre…

You are literally lying.

Psilosibin only needs 1-2 treatments and is very long lasting. Same as ketamine, which might need up to 6. Both are nothing compared to SSRIs. You are lying when you say it needs years of treatment.

Re: Leaked VA memo calls for up to 83,000 layoffs to reduce workforce to 2019 levels

#120

Post by maigret »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #118
bpt3 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People do. Americans come out well ahead on disposable income. You keep comparing the US to Switzerland, which is a giant outlier in Europe and probably the most like the US in many ways (as you pointed out), when you should be comparing it to France, Germany, and all the other larger EU states with a stagnant economy and populations that have gotten substantially poorer relative to the US over the last 20+ years. Al…

I've only ever lived in Switzerland and none of the other European countries. But I remember visiting France and Germany...things are so cheap there compared to Swiss! You could eat out and not pay 100CHF per person. I do have friends in other parts of Europe (e.g. NL, DE, DK, FR) and while they like our salaries, they don't really like our costs. > If we could get that under control, there would be no competition ec…

A friend living there used to say, Switzerland has twice the salary but thrice the costs.
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