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U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

wsj.com

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Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#111

Post by Teever »

csomar wrote: post #90
arunabha wrote: post #19

It would be one thing if there was a clear policy and adherence to it. In that case, you could discuss and reason in good faith. However there is no such indication that this decision is based on a considered policy. Trump's supporters would say that this is a result of not wanting the US being involved in foreign conflicts. That is a laudable goal, however that is not what is happening here. From the article > On Fr…

It is not a petty tantrum though it might look like one. You have to consider that the incumbents have won the US elections, that's not a small feat. What many people are missing is that if the US main challenger is China and beating Russia is a far thing, then it makes sense for the US to ally with Russia against China. For that, the US might need to give Russia something (some EU countries?) for this hustle and als…

This seems quite reasonable on the surface but it neglects the evidence of sheer incompetence from the first Trump term.

There's no 5d chess here. There's no scenario where ceding Poland and Ukraine to Russian authoritarians leads to a more free world and a victory over Chinese aithoritarianism. There's just rampant and opportunitistic corruption.

The US is being carved up from the inside and nothing about this process will help the impending conflict against China.

The sooner we all recognize this like the Europeans seem to be doing is the sooner we can coordinate to destroy authoritarians wherever they may call home.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#112

Post by bradhe »

DidYaWipe wrote: post #88

The USA stands in miserable disgrace.

Amazing to see Russia win the Cold War—one we didn’t even know we were in. Their propaganda network is so strong that it took 3 weeks to go from “Russia is the enemy” to “eh, we have other problems” amongst the folks who…subscribe accordingly. Absolute masterclass in projecting power in the digital age.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#113

Post by throwaway48476 »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #67
jltsiren wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's one thing to stop all aid to Ukraine. That makes you an asshole in a world full of assholes. But it's another thing to do that while simultaneously working to restore relations with Russia. There is only one word for that: evil. Back in the late 90s to late 2000s, people in Western Europe generally had pretty negative views of the US. It was the country that refused to fight against climate change, launched an i…

Why do people think it is so far fetched that Trump is a Russian asset given his behavior in his last term (trying to blackmail Zelenskyy on an official call) and his credit problems in the past (no banks would lend to him given his failure to pay back any loan, with the exception of an obscure channel through a German bank)? Perhaps Trump is just in debt to Putin and this is payback, he was intentionally crass to Ze…

The phone was a domestic politics issue.

Actual Russian assets exist, people like Jackson Hinkle and Tim Pool. Trump generally doesn't fit the mold.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#114

Post by bradhe »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #67
jltsiren wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's one thing to stop all aid to Ukraine. That makes you an asshole in a world full of assholes. But it's another thing to do that while simultaneously working to restore relations with Russia. There is only one word for that: evil. Back in the late 90s to late 2000s, people in Western Europe generally had pretty negative views of the US. It was the country that refused to fight against climate change, launched an i…

Why do people think it is so far fetched that Trump is a Russian asset given his behavior in his last term (trying to blackmail Zelenskyy on an official call) and his credit problems in the past (no banks would lend to him given his failure to pay back any loan, with the exception of an obscure channel through a German bank)? Perhaps Trump is just in debt to Putin and this is payback, he was intentionally crass to Ze…

People don’t want to admit it.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#115

Post by throwaway48476 »

jordanb wrote: post #40
Trasmatta wrote: post #5

This was clearly the plan all along. The farce at the White House was just the pretense.

Yeah I think the whole thing was planned in Riyadh between Trump, Putin and MBS. Which makes one wonder what MBS's role is. My theory is that he will organize OPEC production cuts, designed to boost Russia's economy and crush Europe's.

OPEC just announced an increase. MBS wants to hurt US shale so when trump drills more they push the price down.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#116

Post by klipt »

csomar wrote: post #102
klipt wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it makes sense for the US to ally with Russia against China Economically and population wise Russia is tiny compared to the West (Canada, EU, etc) It makes no sense to trade our alliance with the West for alliance with much weaker and poorer Russia. I think Russia has compromising info on Trump. That's the simplest explanation.

Russia advantage is its large border with China. The US is not allying because of their (non) existent economy. But they'll be a formidable ally in case of a war against China.

You're trying to sell this as the USA dividing and conquering Russia and China against each other.

But it looks much more like Russia dividing and conquering the USA from the rest of the democratic, human rights supporting West.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#118

Post by citrin_ru »

csomar wrote: post #90
arunabha wrote: post #19

It would be one thing if there was a clear policy and adherence to it. In that case, you could discuss and reason in good faith. However there is no such indication that this decision is based on a considered policy. Trump's supporters would say that this is a result of not wanting the US being involved in foreign conflicts. That is a laudable goal, however that is not what is happening here. From the article > On Fr…

It is not a petty tantrum though it might look like one. You have to consider that the incumbents have won the US elections, that's not a small feat. What many people are missing is that if the US main challenger is China and beating Russia is a far thing, then it makes sense for the US to ally with Russia against China. For that, the US might need to give Russia something (some EU countries?) for this hustle and als…

Russia is close to becoming a Chinese client state. I don’t think Trump can stop this.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#119

Post by klipt »

kennysoona wrote: post #71
ndidowneb wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

do you legitimately believe this administration is just doing things at random with no plan or thought whatsoever?

It's clear as day and I'm incredibly skeptical of anyone that wants to claim otherwise and try and defend an emotional overgrown child's actions as rational.

There is a plan being realized here: Putin's.

Trump is doing everything Putin wants.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#120

Post by gloosx »

ndidowneb wrote: post #11
creato wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really tiring seeing the HN enlightened conservatives talking as if there is a coherent policy here. Withdrawing military support for Ukraine alone might be reasonable, I disagree with it but I can see the sense in it. But Trump is absolutely wrecking every relationship we have in the world, trading or otherwise, except with Russia, where he wants to remove sanctions and increase trade. Even if you disregard all…

do you legitimately believe this administration is just doing things at random with no plan or thought whatsoever?

do you legitimately believe any administration is planning and doing things for everyone's good? for the nation? for the people?

the only plan is to abuse the power they got, oppress and plunder the people. for the 4 years. in the name of people's will.

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