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Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

bbc.com

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Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#111

Post by jimbob45 »

lun4r wrote: post #47

If I were American, I’d be sick with shame. As a European, I’m disgusted—not just by your leadership, but by your silence. Your country is spiraling into disgrace, yet you sit there, watching, complaining online, doing nothing. Where is your outrage? Where are the millions in the streets forcing change? By staying silent, you are complicit. Just like the Russians who let Putin tighten his grip for decades, you are le…

As a European, I’m disgusted—not just by your leadership, but by your silence.

I'm quite pleased with everything that's going on. The lesson from Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan (Soviets), Afghanistan (US), and Iraq is that there is never going to be a good time to leave but you need to leave as soon as possible before things get worse.

There's the counterargument that Hitler could have been stopped early during/after Czechoslovakia but you can't waltz into every conflict just because it might turn into WW2 later.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#112

Post by [deleted] »

seydor wrote: post #82

It looks like the US wants a regime change in Ukraine, it's possible that this became a pre condition from russia for talks to go forward. OTOH, a minerals deal with the US ensures that the US will have a stake in defending the postwar ukraine. Lots of drama and optics involved for sure, but it seems the outcome or the talks was predetermined JdVance will not last for long - is there procedure to replace him?

[deleted]

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#113

Post by tonymet »

Negotiations get heated. It's the only way to reach an honest agreement. Better to get those feelings out.

Trump was elected on negotiating a peace, and that's going to piss off Zelensky. Zelensky became entitled to a blank check with no strings attached. Now the terms have changed.

There are some people who expect dialog to proceed like an HR meeting, and those that find relief in direct and sometimes heated language.

To me the meeting felt like a tremendous relief. A resolution will develop, finally.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#114

Post by poszlem »

lijf wrote: post #44

Sorry about the podcast link, the gist is that Ukraine now can build drones from cardboard, controlled from Kiev, London etc. that can destroy Russian tanks. https://www.ft.com/content/8793e218-9dc4-43a8-8183-e2a092bbb...

Yes, Zelensky just called Trump's bluff more or less.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#115

Post by pkaye »

insane_dreamer wrote: post #10

Ukraine is in a bind, and the US has the power to do whatever it wants. But boy, will the nations of the world remember this -- how quickly the US can turn from ally to bully. A really bad day for US foreign policy. The EU is going to be thinking long and hard about the future of NATO now.

The US military was concerned about this scenario long before and raised concerns back in 2011. They predicted why someone like Trump would would come in power and question the purpose of NATO. But it was not taken seriously by NATO allies at that time. Obama even wanted European allies to be able to launch their own military missions with just US as a support role. The Libya interventions was supposed to be a test of that.

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/natosource/text-of-spe...

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#118

Post by Jtsummers »

seydor wrote: post #82

It looks like the US wants a regime change in Ukraine, it's possible that this became a pre condition from russia for talks to go forward. OTOH, a minerals deal with the US ensures that the US will have a stake in defending the postwar ukraine. Lots of drama and optics involved for sure, but it seems the outcome or the talks was predetermined JdVance will not last for long - is there procedure to replace him?

If the Vice Presidency is vacant, the President nominates and Congress (both houses) confirm.

> Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress.

25th Amendment

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxxv

The VP can be removed by Congress (impeachment), the President cannot direct the VP to vacate the office.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#119

Post by tgv »

tehjoker wrote: post #105

Thank god that finally we're going to stop sending hundreds of thousands of men into a meat grinder for no purpose. Ofc, Trump is doing this in great part because he personally hates Zelensky and Biden. He's doing what he did to Obama and just unwinding everything his predecessor did. He also correctly ascertains that this is a huge waste of money that is counterproductive. All the liberal cold warriors that wanted t…

The US has an effective way of ending that: more, heavier weapons, no restrictions, and a promise to place peace keepers. Instead, they chose to infuriate a key player. Cui bono?
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