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Matrix Foundation to shut down bridges if it doesn't raise $100K

matrix.org

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Re: Matrix Foundation to shut down bridges if it doesn't raise $100K

#111

Post by Arathorn »

saint_yossarian wrote: post #83
Arathorn wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The irony is that I suspect we have fixed it - eg Element X and Matrix 2.0 is a massive step change forwards; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHyHO3xPfQU etc. But I can see why bad experiences in the past would stick.

So what exactly is the status of Element X? I was under the impression it's still in development, lacking some features of the old app, and will fully replace it when it's ready. If I search for Element on app stores I still get the old app first (with millions of installs, vs. tens of thousands with Element X), and https://matrix.org/try-matrix also still points people to the old app. So I'm confused what "past" you…

Element X exited beta in September, and is the preferred app from Element, as per https://element.io/app-for-productivity

It doesn’t have threads or spaces yet; threads are underway currently; spaces will follow.

Dendrite on the other hand has been relegated to an experimental server; we didn’t have bandwidth to do both Synapse and Dendrite so focused on improving Synapse instead, which has steadily become less of a resource hog. Guess we should provide dendrite->synapse migration paths.

Re: Matrix Foundation to shut down bridges if it doesn't raise $100K

#112

Post by Arathorn »

pzmarzly wrote: post #68
Arathorn wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The irony is that I suspect we have fixed it - eg Element X and Matrix 2.0 is a massive step change forwards; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHyHO3xPfQU etc. But I can see why bad experiences in the past would stick.

Only for mobile, no? Element X for desktop is still in development, last time I checked, and the old client is as bad as ever. Element is the only piece of software where logging in and out (I don't want to be permanently logged in) proved to be too much of a challenge - I was regularly losing encryption keys on different devices.

yup, only on mobile. Element on Desktop is yet to be revamped, but hopefully we’ll do so this year.

Re: Matrix Foundation to shut down bridges if it doesn't raise $100K

#113

Post by Arathorn »

RadiozRadioz wrote: post #90

I do hope they get what they need. If nothing else, I think they've chosen a solid and well-founded strategy to manage the situation - the focus areas they mentioned are more important than bridging. Maintaining bridges has always struck me as something hugely resource intensive. I applaud their stewardship. My story with moving to Matrix is similar to many others. I was enthusiastic about it, managed to persuade my…

the frustrating thing is that Element X really did fix the encryption issues. getting people to give it a second chance is hard though.

Re: Matrix Foundation to shut down bridges if it doesn't raise $100K

#114

Post by Arathorn »

bronson wrote: post #108
Arathorn wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hm, Element X should outperform other chat apps; mine does and I’m in 5000 odd rooms. What platform and hardware are you on?

Pixel 9. Here's an example: GrapheneOS General is mirrored to Discord. Open both and start scrolling up. ElementX shows the spinner for 3 seconds at a time, Discord spins for 1/2 second or so. Go ahead and race them, it's not even close. Another example: Matrix HQ is always notoriously slow. Just now I opened it and there are no messages ... none. No spinner. Just a note at the bottom saying "27 room changes." I wait…

iOS.

I suspect you are hitting perf issues on Android due to lack of caching (which bite Android way more than iOS due to JNA being way slower for calling the rust-sdk than Swift’s rust bindings). This should be fixed by https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-rust-sdk/issues/3280, which as you can see from all the checkboxes is making progress.

Re: Matrix Foundation to shut down bridges if it doesn't raise $100K

#115

Post by kevincox »

Arathorn wrote: post #100
Sincere6066 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, I've tried to use Matrix many times overy many years. I do care about more than JUST the UX but it has been SO consistently bad that I just can't. Something has gotta change, preferably before Discord completely implodes.

the thing that changed is that Element rewrote the mobile apps and made them not suck. Web will follow shortly: https://element.io/blog/we-have-lift-off-element-x-call-and-... etc

For the second time...

And they still don't support many features...

And there is lack of compatibility for things like video calling so transitioning to them is infeasible for lots of people.

This sort of seems like the sort of UX issue OP is concerned about.

Re: Matrix Foundation to shut down bridges if it doesn't raise $100K

#116

Post by Arathorn »

tredre3 wrote: post #106
thibaultamartin wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Per https://matrix.to/#/!sWpnrYUMmaBrlqfRdn:matrix.org/$xga3TYyV... > T&S staffing alone is about $360k/yr, and server and SRE costs about $240k/yr And per https://matrix.to/#/!sWpnrYUMmaBrlqfRdn:matrix.org/$pupglsTX... > There's a rough cost breakdown available to the Governing Board right now in Discourse, which we'll be polishing and publishing after our first Finance and Fundraising Committee meeting So the finan…

> Can you expand on your doubts for the ability to execute? I have faith that the foundation manages its finance properly. I believe the Matrix protocol (and ecosystem) is full of good, needed, ideas. But the software produced by the foundation is simply bad. From the clients to the servers. In every single matrix threads, complaints about the UX or performance abound. Usually followed by people from the foundation s…

> But the software produced by the foundation is simply bad.

The foundation produces things like the spec and the e2ee libs. The last time the foundation produced a client was in 2015, and servers in 2023 - in both instances the wider community builds the implementations, just as W3C doesn’t make web browsers any more.

> Usually followed by people from the foundation saying it's fixed in X or 2.0.

Could this be because… it’s fixed in Element X or Matrix 2.0, perhaps?

Re: Matrix Foundation to shut down bridges if it doesn't raise $100K

#117

Post by kevincox »

Arathorn wrote: post #79
like_any_other wrote: post #70

> Without Trust & Safety efforts, bad actors and communities would proliferate on the network and make it unlivable for the rest. What exactly does this mean? How is, say, my friend group chat affected by unconnected "bad communities"? Why do we care if those communities use matrix, or http, or xmpp, or skype?

because if your friends start roaming around the public Matrix network and find public chatrooms full of abusive content, then they will indeed be affected. see https://matrix.org/blog/2025/02/building-a-safer-matrix/ for more.

This seems like tough choices to make. I see a lot of concerns.

1. The Matrix Foundation wants to promote communities to encourage adoption.

2. Matrix needs tools for moderating communities, even if the Matrix Foundation doesn't run communities.

So it probably does make sense for the Foundation to take this problem on, even if not directly required to making a chat protocol.

Re: Matrix Foundation to shut down bridges if it doesn't raise $100K

#118

Post by Arathorn »

carlosjobim wrote: post #107

If they only had a dollar for every time any hacker made a comment on how great it is.... Then they'd have much more than 100k

and if we had a dollar for every time someone said how much it sucked when they tried it 5 years ago, we’d have more than the $1.2M target! :D

Re: Matrix Foundation to shut down bridges if it doesn't raise $100K

#119

Post by tylergetsay »

Arathorn wrote: post #113
RadiozRadioz wrote: post #90

I do hope they get what they need. If nothing else, I think they've chosen a solid and well-founded strategy to manage the situation - the focus areas they mentioned are more important than bridging. Maintaining bridges has always struck me as something hugely resource intensive. I applaud their stewardship. My story with moving to Matrix is similar to many others. I was enthusiastic about it, managed to persuade my…

the frustrating thing is that Element X really did fix the encryption issues. getting people to give it a second chance is hard though.

I just downloaded it and there is no way to reset my password. I had to go to the element web interface to do so.

There is still a lot to do

Re: Matrix Foundation to shut down bridges if it doesn't raise $100K

#120

Post by Arathorn »

tylergetsay wrote: post #119
Arathorn wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the frustrating thing is that Element X really did fix the encryption issues. getting people to give it a second chance is hard though.

I just downloaded it and there is no way to reset my password. I had to go to the element web interface to do so. There is still a lot to do

This is probably because you’re using matrix.org, which hasn’t yet rolled out the new Matrix 2.0 authentication thet Element X uses (given it involves migrating 50M accounts or something). This is planned for March however.
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