Softmax forever, or why I like softmax • Hacker News Board

Re: Softmax forever, or why I like softmax

#111

Post by 1dom » Fri, Feb 21, 2025, 4:50 PM UTC

Izkata wrote: post #109

bowsamic wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I only communicate seriously

That's different from a "serious tone of voice" though. Think like the way a parent might start talking to their kid when they're angry but not yelling, with something like "You better get home right now." Or another example: "Call me" is a just a regular "let's chat about something", but "Call me." is "something bad happened I need to tell you about, so prepare yourself". Interestingly, you're actually partially doi…

This is interesting. I didn't realise so many people disable it. A lot of what you're saying is completely backwards to my life experience.

For me and I guess most people I communicate with on e.g. Whatsapp. "Call me." is normal, expected, everything is fine, just need a phone call. "call me" is more like something has gone so horribly wrong (or someone is so incredibly pissed off) they've lost the ability to communicate normally. I wouldn't be offended, more like concerned.

Re: Softmax forever, or why I like softmax

#112

Post by Gormo » Fri, Feb 21, 2025, 7:20 PM UTC

1dom wrote: post #29

roger_ wrote: post #27

An aside: please use proper capitalization. With this article I found myself backtracking thinking I’d missed a word, which was very annoying. Not sure what the authors intention was with that decision but please reconsider.

I agree. I'm all for Graham's pyramid of disagreement: we should focus on the core argument, rather than superfluous things like tone, or character, or capitalisation. But this is too much for me personally. I just realised I consider the complete lack of capitalisation on a piece of public intellectual work to be obnoxious. Sorry, it's impractical, distracting and generates unnecessary cognitive load for everyone el…

Capitalization and punctuation are to written language what pronunciation and stress are to spoken language. If someone was mispronouncing every word, using incorrect vowels, stressing the wrong syllables, etc., you'd have a really hard time understanding anything they're saying. Writing with incorrect punctuation and capitalization impedes comprehension in the same way.

Re: Softmax forever, or why I like softmax

#113

Post by Gormo » Fri, Feb 21, 2025, 7:24 PM UTC

meowface wrote: post #39

jiggawatts wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a fad associated with AI, popularised by Sam Altman especially. It's the new black turtleneck that everyone is wearing, but will swear upon their mother's life isn't because they're copying Steve Jobs.

Twitter and all forms of instant messaging (SMS, WhatsApp, Discord, and the older ones like AIM/MSN/ICQ) have normalized it for many years. Sam is just one of the few large company CEOs to tweet in the style other Twitter users usually use. He's adopting the native culture rather than setting a trend. Sam still uses capitalization in all of his essays, as do most people (including young people). In essays, like this…

> He's adopting the native culture rather than setting a trend.

Maybe he should consider there are different registers of language, and code-switching is a thing. This now increasingly applies to written language, not just spoken language.

Writing this way in structured, formal discourse would be equivalent to a CEO using internet memes and trendy slang in board meetings.

Re: Softmax forever, or why I like softmax

#114

Post by Gormo » Fri, Feb 21, 2025, 7:27 PM UTC

handsclean wrote: post #59

roger_ wrote: post #27

An aside: please use proper capitalization. With this article I found myself backtracking thinking I’d missed a word, which was very annoying. Not sure what the authors intention was with that decision but please reconsider.

This is the norm for Gen Z. We don’t see it because children don’t set social norms where adults are present too, but with the oldest of Gen Z about to turn 30, you and I should expect to see this more and more, and get used to it. If every kid can handle it, I think we can, too.

Kids also pee in their pants at a rate vastly exceeding that of adults, but they usually stop doing it before they hit 30.

Re: Softmax forever, or why I like softmax

#115

Post by Gormo » Fri, Feb 21, 2025, 7:31 PM UTC

sodapopcan wrote: post #72

jppope wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Language evolves. Capitalization is an artifact of a period where capitalizing the first letter made a lot of sense for the medium (parchment/paper). Modern culture is abandoning it for speed efficiency on keyboards or digital keyboards. A purist would say that we should still be using all capitals like they did in Greek/Latin which again was related to the medium. I'll likely continue using Capitalization as a prefe…

As much as I dislike it sometimes, language absolutely does evolve. Proper capitalization does not fit into this, though. It can completely change the meaning of something if it is not capitalized. It's not just at the beginning of sentences, it's proper nouns within a sentence. Unfortunately I don't have an example of this handy but it's happened to me several times in my life where I've been completely confused by…

> As much as I dislike it sometimes, language absolutely does evolve.

Pointing out that language evolves helps to explain how the current established conventions came to be, but it is not an argument that there are (or should be) no established conventions.

If you are speaking in a way that diverges from what most people understand, then you are miscommunication and are making demonstrable errors precisely because the language has evolved into what it currently is, and not something else.

Re: Softmax forever, or why I like softmax

#116

Post by 4ggr0 » Sat, Feb 22, 2025, 2:36 PM UTC

1dom wrote: post #110

4ggr0 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i don't want to press the shift-key everytime i need a capitalized letter on my phone and i disable auto-correct because it constantly messes with native languages etc. wasn't aware that this makes me a steve jobs copier :( EDIT: people are seriously so emotionally invested in capitalization that i get downvoted into minus, jeez.

Hey, sorry! I don't want you to feel bad, and I don't think you should. I think there are legitimate reasons to struggle with things like capital letters, and you've named a few: non-native language and interface device limitations. There's other accessibility reasons too, like I have some dyslexic family members who use less capitalisation than most. Also, direct or casual communication with individuals, the impact…

> Hey, sorry! I don't want you to feel bad, and I don't think you should.

no worries, but apologies accepted, and sorry that i make you read my non-capitalized comments :)

> The problem I have with this piece is that it's clearly meant to be an intellectual or academic-adjacent piece

that's a good point i hadn't considered. i am of course for correct capitalization and grammar in "serious" documents etc., HN for me is more like a blog. but HN links to third-party, "serious" sites, where such things should matter.

> many thousands of people lose a few seconds each when reading.

i guess i can't really comprehend why some struggle with reading non-capitalized texts in english, because it doesn't matter to my brain. but valuable to know, that other people prefer it.

> I'm not smart enough to understand it anyway.

+1. at least we can discuss about language, so it's not that we're too dumb in general ;)