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Apple is open sourcing Swift Build

swift.org

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Re: Apple is open sourcing Swift Build

#111

Post by caspper69 »

tamlin wrote: post #93
IshKebab wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably talking about Miguel de Icaza. I think his history is wrong though. I don't recall any talk of rewriting GNOME in C# - they were all about their pet language Vala. And Miguel started Mono way before Microsoft made C# cross-platform. At that point they were antagonists.

Microsoft had a research version of the CLR called Rotor (2002) that predated Mono (2004). Rotor built for Windows, FreeBSD, and macOs, albeit with a not-very-open license. When Mono came along, the internal position at Microsoft was surprisingly positive. There was a dev slide deck that went into Mono in some depth. And a telling slide that said it wasn't a threat because the performance wasn't competitive at the ti…

Rotor was BSD licensed, so I suppose if that’s your definition of a not very open license…

Re: Apple is open sourcing Swift Build

#112

Post by madeofpalk »

tempodox wrote: post #96
rescripting wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn’t true, you can get the next version of Swift by downloading a pkg installer from https://www.swift.org/install/macos/ You can get it bundled with Xcode as well if you’d like, but it’s not necessary.

But you cannot run the product on an iDevice and a build for Mac Catalyst isn't even possible. “Bundled with Xcode” is very much necessary.

Swift isn't the one being held hostage, it's iOS development.

Re: Apple is open sourcing Swift Build

#113

Post by pjmlp »

krupan wrote: post #56

The discussion here reminds me so much of early C# days. It was being touted as open source and cross platform back then, and Microsoft even hired a top GNOME developer to port it to Linux and GNOME was going to be rewritten in C#. It was going to be amazing. Never quite panned out.

Microsoft never had anything to do with that with nice story full of butterflies.

The only UNIX Microsoft has ever supported during pre-Satya days, was Rotor for FreeBSD, nothing else.

Mono and DotGNU had nothing to do with Microsoft until Xamarin acquisition.

Re: Apple is open sourcing Swift Build

#114

Post by truncate »

bastardoperator wrote: post #90
dhsysusbsjsi wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scooby doo meme “let’s see who you really are”. . Apple employee.

All 1100+ contributors are Apple employees?…

Are 1100+ contributors active contributors and/or actually making non-trivial changes?

Re: Apple is open sourcing Swift Build

#115

Post by pjmlp »

caspper69 wrote: post #110
raydev wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Microsoft even hired a top GNOME developer to port it to Linux and GNOME was going to be rewritten in C# Do you have a source for the GNOME C# claim? I can't find one.

Miguel was not a MS employee. He did parlay Xamarin into an acqui-hire though and is now a softie.

Miguel has long left Microsoft and nowadays focus on Apple ecosystem, and Godot.

He also voiced back on twitter his disapproval on how Xamarin.Forms became MAUI.

Re: Apple is open sourcing Swift Build

#116

Post by GeekyBear »

JTyQZSnP3cQGa8B wrote: post #46
uhura wrote: post #36

I believe that this long game of Swift being "good for everything" but "better for Apple platforms" will be detrimental to the language. This does not help the language nor seems to bring more people to the ecosystem. Competitors seems to have a combination of: - Being more open-source - Have more contributors - Have a narrower scope Maybe they should consider open sourcing all the tooling (like Xcode) otherwise the…

This has been my experience for a long time. Swift is nice but why would I waste my time working on a language that is too tied to the Apple platform even if it's open-source when we have more universal scripting languages like Python, or languages like Kotlin that are compiled but have more support (because I trust JetBrains way more than Apple at the moment), or languages that are most strict like Rust but have mor…

> languages that are most strict like Rust but have more momentum and safety?

Like Rust, Swift is a compiled language that offers memory safety by default.

The creator of Clang and LLVM also created Swift, and interoperability with C was an explicit design goal.

So Swift offers the memory safety and data race safety of Rust, in a compiled language, without giving up tight integration with C.

(To be fair, better C integration is something the Rust community is looking to add.)

Re: Apple is open sourcing Swift Build

#117

Post by seviu »

sgt wrote: post #88
elforce002 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi Tim. I liked your work with dart/flutter. Are you guys working on overhauling Xcode? The DX is atrocious.

Did something happen with Xcode? I used it around 5 years ago, and it was pretty good and fast. I don't think it had dark mode but that's not too important to me.

No refactoring tools, lack of autocomplete, having multiple targets break compilation, errors in the ui, crashes running unit tests, it freaks out when switching git branches, spm can’t handle proxy servers, never ending indexing… List goes on and on. Xcode used to be good at around version 3. Everything that came after that has been disastrous.

Meanwhile Android Studio or VS Syudio are tools which are a joy to use and are built to help you and not to be constantly on your way

Fact is Apple should do like Google and admit there are better ides out there

Re: Apple is open sourcing Swift Build

#119

Post by [deleted] »

robotresearcher wrote: post #70
mojuba wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have a stack dump, which means you will get all the information if you symbolicate your crash report. Xcode can do it for you automatically, but some manual methods also exist.

Indeed the error report being complained about explains this and tells you how to fix it. Maybe the friendly default would be to have the symbolicated reports on, but perhaps this has performance impact so it’s off.

[deleted]

Re: Apple is open sourcing Swift Build

#120

Post by YmiYugy »

philistine wrote: post #107
kelnos wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Either they are the best and everyone uses macOS "Best" obviously means different things to different people, but at least by market share, macOS has never been the best. Modern Apple doesn't seem to care about market share outside of the iPhone (and even then, they are still more interested in the iPhone being a premium product than winning on market share). I used to like macOS, 15-20 years ago, but now it's just…

> but now it's just power-user-hostile and considerably more locked down and buggy. Sure, macOS has continued to secure more and more elements of the OS. They have taken a different approach than Windows and Linux, which both keep large swaths of the OS woefully insecure from third-party apps for legacy reasons. But for each and every new lock, there is a key. An incredibly secure OS that gives you the power to contr…

Mac OS does some amazing things for security. An immutable root OS, sandboxing, very user friendly disk encryption. But there are certainly decisions that hold back the platform. Their business decisions have driven most developers away from the App Store. There is a notarization process, but it imposes a burden that many small open source projects can not bear. They don't have an easy way to run untrusted software in a containerized way (compare Fedora toolbox). Installing things globally via homebrew or a random install script is still the way to go.
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