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Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

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Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#111

Post by jmward01 »

roenxi wrote: post #94
sangnoir wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a trick question about Hollywood accounting?

It isn't Hollywood accounting, it is just that Tesla isn't very profitable once the proper accounting is done. If you tax profits and companies don't have a lot of them then they won't pay taxes. Particularly if the government puts tax incentives in place to encourage people to go in to solar and EVs.

I guess that explains why Elon is so poor and the company is valued at practically nothing compare to all other automakers.

Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#112

Post by Negitivefrags »

zelon88 wrote: post #98
gonzobonzo wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tax credits seem to make sense for an EV company? That's one of the things that I've found odd. A lot of people that very strongly support things like tax credits for EV cars, in order to fight climate change, will then turn around and talk about how terrible they are when they're actually used, such as in the article here. A lot of times people don't seem to have a consistent view of what they actually want, and w…

In reality, what is more damaging for the environment? Replacing a 2019 Toyota Rav4 with a 2025 Tesla in North America, or..... Replacing a 1985 VW Jetta with a 2019 Toyota Rav4 in India? I see YouTube videos all the time where people in third world countries are using turn of the century hit-and-miss engines to power things like water pumps or machine tools. These countries are leaking countless gallons of oil and f…

Every car that is sold retires an old one. And the one it retires will be the least valuable.

This happens becauase the person who buys a new car sells their old one to someone else, who sells their old one to someone else, and so on down the chain.

The oldest cars from America go to other cheaper markets replacing the cars in use there.

Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#113

Post by lesuorac »

linksnapzz wrote: post #49
snypher wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If 0% is how they work, then they don't work.

How much in taxes should you pay on a loss?

But that's the thing, if I take my entire salary and lose it gambling I still owe the government taxes.

I the person am taxed on revenue.

If instead I have a corporation handle everything then I can come up with (relatively simple) systems so that I don't pay taxes and the corporation doesn't pay taxes either.

Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#114

Post by lesuorac »

jmward01 wrote: post #111
roenxi wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't Hollywood accounting, it is just that Tesla isn't very profitable once the proper accounting is done. If you tax profits and companies don't have a lot of them then they won't pay taxes. Particularly if the government puts tax incentives in place to encourage people to go in to solar and EVs.

I guess that explains why Elon is so poor and the company is valued at practically nothing compare to all other automakers.

I urge you to check out the valuation of $Fartcoin.

The value of an speculative item is not linked to it's yield.

Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#115

Post by [deleted] »

OnlineGladiator wrote: post #57
lvl155 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry for the political comment but every time I see Tesla financials I think “this company should’ve failed in 2014 but-for those subsidies and ill-conceived carbon credits.”

And the only reason most domestic airlines, car manufacturers, and some of the largest financial institutions still exist is because of multiple bailouts. It's not like Tesla is unique in being helped by the government.

[deleted]

Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#116

Post by kemotep »

kstrauser wrote: post #106
kemotep wrote: post #73

A Single Tax regime aka the Land Value Tax would make these articles a thing of the past. We could solve the deficit, pay down our debts and many people would pay less in taxes, if we eliminated all taxes and replaced them with a Land Value Tax.

So if I were a trillionaire with a reasonable home, I’d pay the same taxes as my neighbor? Sign me up!

You would only be taxed based on your land use so yes. Labor and Capital would not be taxed only Land.

Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#117

Post by roenxi »

jmward01 wrote: post #111
roenxi wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't Hollywood accounting, it is just that Tesla isn't very profitable once the proper accounting is done. If you tax profits and companies don't have a lot of them then they won't pay taxes. Particularly if the government puts tax incentives in place to encourage people to go in to solar and EVs.

I guess that explains why Elon is so poor and the company is valued at practically nothing compare to all other automakers.

Valuation != profits. Tesla's profits do not explain Musk's wealth, people have been pointing out for years that the valuations of companies like Tesla make little sense. There was a long stretch of many years where they were bleeding red ink like crazy with not much to show for it.

The tax system works on accounting reality, not the opinions of stock traders.

Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#118

Post by ponty_rick »

Negitivefrags wrote: post #112
zelon88 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In reality, what is more damaging for the environment? Replacing a 2019 Toyota Rav4 with a 2025 Tesla in North America, or..... Replacing a 1985 VW Jetta with a 2019 Toyota Rav4 in India? I see YouTube videos all the time where people in third world countries are using turn of the century hit-and-miss engines to power things like water pumps or machine tools. These countries are leaking countless gallons of oil and f…

Every car that is sold retires an old one. And the one it retires will be the least valuable. This happens becauase the person who buys a new car sells their old one to someone else, who sells their old one to someone else, and so on down the chain. The oldest cars from America go to other cheaper markets replacing the cars in use there.

I don't think anyone in India is buying old American cars

Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#119

Post by scarab92 »

epa wrote: post #82
SeanAnderson wrote: post #8

I wish this article was written with a less biased tone. I'm genuinely interested in understanding it better. As far as I can tell, the article cites two things: $500M tax savings by using an accelerated depreciation schedule (unclear if they saved $500M more by using accelerated vs a regular depreciation schedule, but I assume no) and they claimed $300M in tax credits. The article doesn't address the other $1.5B, pr…

When you spend money on manufacturing and equipment, a company does not get to write off the full amount against their taxes when they buy it - they may have to spread it over a period of useful life of that equipment.

Unfortunately, accounting is full of concepts like this.

Ideas which conceptually make accounting “better reflect” the real word, but in reality add a lot of complexity for very little benefit. Getting rid of accrual accounting and simply allowing full expensing of asset purchases with losses to carry over to the next tax period would save everyone a lot of headaches, for a negligible reduction in government tax revenue.

It would also make a lot of accountants redundant, which is probably the main reason they oppose streamlining accounting practices.

Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#120

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

Negitivefrags wrote: post #112
zelon88 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In reality, what is more damaging for the environment? Replacing a 2019 Toyota Rav4 with a 2025 Tesla in North America, or..... Replacing a 1985 VW Jetta with a 2019 Toyota Rav4 in India? I see YouTube videos all the time where people in third world countries are using turn of the century hit-and-miss engines to power things like water pumps or machine tools. These countries are leaking countless gallons of oil and f…

Every car that is sold retires an old one. And the one it retires will be the least valuable. This happens becauase the person who buys a new car sells their old one to someone else, who sells their old one to someone else, and so on down the chain. The oldest cars from America go to other cheaper markets replacing the cars in use there.

Does this actually happen?

With some exceptions, there’s going to be a point where a used car is not worth the trouble to ship it somewhere.

And Americans love their huge ass cars. I can’t see many cheaper markets wanting to use an American car, just for the fuel cost alone.

I bet the cars get trashed for scrap or parts.

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