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It's not a crime if we do it with an app

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Re: It's not a crime if we do it with an app

#111

Post by binernerd »

vtashkov wrote: post #95
gmueckl wrote: post #76

This is all a result of a lack of active market regulation. The government needs to step in actively to keep a free market from collapsing into one of the natural end states. But the US has consistently been far too passive and accepts greedy companies far too readily. If a single company can sell almost 100% of an essential good, they need to atomatically lose the power to set their prices and margins independently.…

[flagged]

I’m not sure you understand so I’ll go slow. If one US company owns all of one thing it’s bad. Mmmkay?

Re: It's not a crime if we do it with an app

#112

Post by layer8 »

__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #77
ryandrake wrote: post #17

More like "It's not a crime if a corporation does it." The US treats corporations with kid gloves. They get away with so much, and in those rare cases where a regulatory body does anything , it's often just a strongly worded letter, a warning, a threat to one day send a strongly worded letter, or, in really rare, extreme cases, a company official gets called in to say a few words in front of Congress. Nobody goes to…

We need to start seizing IP into the public domain and sending shareholders to jail when their companies misbehave. I'm on the hook if my dog bites somebody, it should be no different if the role of my dog is played by a company. Monetary risk is not a real enough risk.

While I’m sympathetic to the sentiment, I don’t see how “sending shareholders to jail” could possibly work, given how many people own shares. It’s like your dog would be collectively owned by a million people. Maybe you mean the board?

Re: It's not a crime if we do it with an app

#113

Post by fwip »

swiftcoder wrote: post #84
Eextra953 wrote: post #23

Does anybody know whats stopping ethical and slightly less greedy companies from outcompeting these conglomerates? Its a question I keep coming back to because if the market were efficient then competitors should be able to use that same data to undercut big potato (or big whatever). This never seems to happen.

Monopolies. They may not all have the 100% marketshare to convince regulators they legally constitute a monopoly, but in practice one can't compete on price with vertically-integrated conglomerates that already own the lion's share of the market, and have an existing relationship with all of your potential suppliers/logistics/retailers...

This is the answer. On paper, we have laws preventing monopolists from abusing their power. In reality, it's easy to disguise any predatory pricing or "special offers," running at or near a loss in your upstart competitor's market until they go out of business.

The only way you win is either major disruption (which is usually not possible), or having a bankroll comparable in size to the incumbent. But anyone with enough cash to enter the market is doing so for a return-on-investment, with just as much profit motive as the existing players.

Re: It's not a crime if we do it with an app

#114

Post by golemotron »

Cheer2171 wrote: post #61
marcosdumay wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some laws are just. Some aren't.

Oh so it seems you are unaware that in modern societies, there is a thing where if laws are unjust, we have a whole system for changing them. It's called government. If your definition of 'unjust' is different than the political system's definition, you have to push for social change to change the political system. You don't get to short-circuit this just because you're an 'innovator'. How do you feel about protester…

What was the plan for fixing taxi service?

Re: It's not a crime if we do it with an app

#115

Post by ajmurmann »

Eextra953 wrote: post #23

Does anybody know whats stopping ethical and slightly less greedy companies from outcompeting these conglomerates? Its a question I keep coming back to because if the market were efficient then competitors should be able to use that same data to undercut big potato (or big whatever). This never seems to happen.

A very good question!

I'd add though that companies don't have to be "ethical and slightly less greedy" to compete on price. Competing on price is a natural way to gain market share. Nobody would say that Bezo expressed ethics and less greed when he said "Your margin is my opportunity"

Companies should charge the real equilibrium price of a product. It's an important signal to lower or increase supply. However, they should not create a coordinated scarcity or otherwise artificially force a higher price than the equilibrium price. This can only happen through (illegal!) cartels or too much market power (which the government is supposed to prevent).

As usual ee cannot ask for better people but need a system that makes the wrong people do the right thing.

Re: It's not a crime if we do it with an app

#116

Post by cratermoon »

drweevil wrote: post #99
hermannj314 wrote: post #32

This is the way our world works. If you steal a potato, you will be arrested immediately and the case will be resolved in a few weeks or months. If you illegally fix the price of potatoes and steal billions from the market, you will be allowed to operate for years in the open while a lengthy civil procedure eventually may ask you to give 1 or 2% of what you stole back in fines. Don't blame the potato theives or potat…

The politicians didn't build this. The cartel owners did, so they are absolutely blame worthy. But politicians sit back and do nothing about it, due to regulatory capture.

News flash: either the head of Potato Cartel inc was tapped to run the US Potato Thief Catching Commission, or the head of the US Potato Thief Catching Commission retired from public life and took a position as head of Potato Cartel inc

Re: It's not a crime if we do it with an app

#117

Post by eastbound »

sega_sai wrote: post #28
djoldman wrote: post #16

It appears that the crux of the article is that a lot of price fixing is going on through the use of programs that suggest or encourage pricing among a few players, to the advantage of all the players and the disadvantage of the customer. Crackdowns do take time in the US but there is hope. See e.g.: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-sues-realp...

There is zero chance that this kind of Justice department actions will be continued in the current administration

The previous administration didn’t do anything either. They, oh oops, studied for 3.5 years, and launched processes in the last 4 months of the 4 years. Oh my, I need to reelect them to see it happen!

Re: It's not a crime if we do it with an app

#118

Post by n2d4 »

The title should be about monopolies, because while I was curious to read arguments on why Uber and Airbnb should be illegal, instead I got an article about cartels in some of the most traditional industries.

Feeling disappointed.

Re: It's not a crime if we do it with an app

#119

Post by pseudalopex »

stickfigure wrote: post #97
fny wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current administration, however, plans to let M&A run wild. Oligopolies don’t need an app for uncoordinated price fixing. The fact that there’s a cartel that controls 97% of the frozen potato market is wild . This will only get worse without breakups.

> cartel that controls 97% of the frozen potato market This is a weird and emotionally loaded statement. Properly stated, the top four frozen potato producers have 97% of the market share . That doesn't sound odd? In a mature market with very little technology innovation (potatoes) and very little geographic specificity (frozen), how many companies would you expect? How many laundry detergent companies are there? How…

> This is a weird and emotionally loaded statement. Properly stated, the top four frozen potato producers have 97% of the market share.

Properly stated they colluded to fix prices. This is the definition of a cartel.

Re: It's not a crime if we do it with an app

#120

Post by gruez »

hermannj314 wrote: post #32

This is the way our world works. If you steal a potato, you will be arrested immediately and the case will be resolved in a few weeks or months. If you illegally fix the price of potatoes and steal billions from the market, you will be allowed to operate for years in the open while a lengthy civil procedure eventually may ask you to give 1 or 2% of what you stole back in fines. Don't blame the potato theives or potat…

>while a lengthy civil procedure eventually may ask you to give 1 or 2% of what you stole back in fines.

Examples? Usually when this argument is trotted out, there's two factors not mentioned: the amount "stolen" is the amount transacted (ie. total potato sold, rather than the additional profit made), or that the government's case is shaky and the settlement reflected that.

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