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The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

kranga.notion.site

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Re: The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

#111

Post by andyjohnson0 »

I've been doing interviews and coding tests recently, but this beats anything I've seen in terms of awfulness. To me, the only thing worse than being tested on your ability to write clever code would be to end-up working in an organisation where everyone had been selected on their ability to write clever code.

I can't make up my mind whether these interviewers are simply staggeringly unaware, or gatekeeping, or that they enjoy making people suffer. The latter because, for every candidate like the author, there will be multiple candidates for whom this kind of test leaves them frozen and anxious. I wish people involved in interviewing would think more about what they're doing.

Re: The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

#112

Post by tgv »

kaoD wrote: post #36
haspok wrote: post #30

> ...the first time in life I spoke english. Well, there you go. Typescript can only get you so far. Unless you want to be a low-paid code monkey, time to learn natural languages. ps. I have many Spanish colleagues, and I have a hard time understanding them in general (when they speak English). Only one other nation is worse, the French...

> I have many Spanish colleagues, and I have a hard time understanding them in general. As a Spaniard I'm curious, why's this? I think I'm pretty well understood (worked remote for US and NL for years) but maybe just in case I can make life easier for my interlocutors.

The Spanish accent in English is --simply put-- atrocious. I've met many Spaniards, and only a few had a clear, understandable accent. Even academics with British or US post-docs may not speak clearly. Nor flight-attendants, for that matter (juecom odi flai tu ásterda).

I only know a few French, but I had a colleague who (although not of the French nationality) was born and raised there, and apparently was taught English literature through reading Les Hauts de Hurlevent. Yes, Wuthering Heights, in French.

Re: The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

#113

Post by guccihat »

bhaney wrote: post #109
guccihat wrote: post #103

I will go against the grain and say I do not consider OPs fizzbuzz solution to score particular well on readability or maintainability. And these were the only two stated core requirements. The solution is clever and demonstrates solid knowledge of TS. However, in my experience getting too clever with the type system is not always a good idea for ordinary application code maintained by a team of average TS developers…

> ...readability or maintainability. And these were the only two stated core requirements. Where was that stated? I don't see those being mentioned as core requirements at all

It was the whole point of the exercise if I read the article correct

"While the base algorithm is very simple, the point of the exercise is that the interviewer will add new rules to test how you update the code while keeping it readable and maintainable."

Re: The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

#114

Post by Mawr »

bootsmann wrote: post #38
jcz_nz wrote: post #2

Very clever! Also, I’d steer absolutely clear of any company that does this. This doesn’t assess anything meaningful, it’s an ego trip for the interviewer. Ugh.

Disagree, this is a significant step up from the leetcode-style programming puzzles that other companies do. It doesn't bank on the interviewee knowing the specific trick that makes the puzzle work and instead tries to somewhat test the skills that are more significant for the job at hand like debugging, refactoring and dealing with changing requirements.

That was likely the thought process of the interviewers, however wrong.

FizzBuzz works well enough as a lowest common denominator screening test, but it doesn't scale up. At its core, it's an entirely made up problem with no relevance to anything you may ever do at a job. How do you evaluate requirements for a problem that is not real?

The higher level the skills you want to test, the more realistic your questions have to get.

Re: The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

#115

Post by darkwater »

Since I'm in the process of seeking a job, I would like to share a somehow related experience in one technical interview, this time for a senior DevOps role. So, after the initial introductions and talking a bit about infra as code with Terraform, they interviewer asked a question:

"What would you use if you cannot use Terraform for a project?"

To which I initially answered, since it was a SENIOR position, with a warning about mixing Terraform and non-Terraform managed infra because it can lead to unforeseen issues, especially if there are less visible dependencies between the 2. I then mentioned anyway it could be done with Python + boto3, with AWS CLI + bash, with Pulumi, with CDK and then after some extra talk, also with Ansible.

They didn't want a long answer with lessons learned in real prod, they wanted a oneliner answer: Ansible. They told me then to be shorter in next answers and proceeded to ask like 30 questions in a row involving bash, Linux, Terraform and Kubernetes knowledge, to which I answered all correctly (and with the one-liner answer).

The result: discarded, because I chaotically answered to that first question. Although I was somehow offended because I don't like to be discarded, I think I dodged a bullet in this case.

Re: The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

#116

Post by bhaney »

guccihat wrote: post #113
bhaney wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...readability or maintainability. And these were the only two stated core requirements. Where was that stated? I don't see those being mentioned as core requirements at all

It was the whole point of the exercise if I read the article correct "While the base algorithm is very simple, the point of the exercise is that the interviewer will add new rules to test how you update the code while keeping it readable and maintainable."

Good point. I don't know why that stood out to me so much less than "the interviewer noted that I could even use esoteric programming languages" which to me is code for "go nuts and do stupid fun stuff like writing your whole solution in APL for the extra challenge of it" or other flashy passion-having-shibboleths, which are usually incompatible with readability or maintainability.

Re: The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

#118

Post by 317070 »

vkou wrote: post #100
317070 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it's an English thing. A literal translation in Dutch would mean "explain yourself here", and if you'd change tack because of the question alone, it would seem like you really lack self-confidence. But after living in the UK for a bit, in the UK that is most likely an order.

> and if you'd change tack because of the question alone, it would seem like you really lack self-confidence. Or because the candidate realized that they've messed up, and by dropping the issue can at least salvage the next XY minutes of the interview by not going down the wrong rabbit hole. "Could you tell me more about this?" and "Are you sure about this?" are invitations for providing the rationalization for your…

I know, I have now spent enough time in the Anglosphere to understand this cultural code. But I do want to emphasize that, yes, if you only know English as a language, that that subcontext is not obvious.

In France, professors would literally say "You are wrong." as an invitation to explain yourself better. There are only 500km between London and Paris, but the culture behind these words is the complete opposite.

Re: The FizzBuzz that did not get me the job

#120

Post by eunos »

ch_123 wrote: post #54
mgaunard wrote: post #50

Normally, you learn during high school that when you take any exam, you should not reply with the best or smartest answer, but with the answer the teacher expects. The same applies to interviews.

If you are interviewing for a job - the "answer the teacher expects" can tell you a lot about the company you are potentially going to work for, as can the exam which you are given to prove your worth.

Job market kinda suck for employee so cant be picky I guess
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