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Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search

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Re: Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search

#111

Post by rmgk »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #43
puttycat wrote: post #34

I recently discovered how great the ChatGPT web search feature is. Returns live (!) results from the web and usually finds things that Google doesn't - mostly niche searches in natural language that G simply doesn't get. Of course, it uses JavaScript, which doesn't help with the problem discussed here. But I do think that Google is internally seeing a huge drop in usage which is why they're currently running for the…

I've been experimenting with creating single-site browsers[1] for all websites I routinely visit, effectively removing navigational queries from search engines; between that and Claude being able to answer technical questions, it's remarkable how rarely I even use browsers for day-to-day tasks anymore (as in web views with tabs and url bars). We've been using the web (as in documents interconnected with links between…

While I am glad that you seem to have found a new workflow that you like, your description strikes me as a personal experience.

I am aware that a lot of people use searches as a form of navigation, but it’s also very common that people use bookmarks, speed dial, history, pinned tabs, and other browser features instead of searching. My Firefox is configured to not do online searches when I type into the address bar, instead I get only history suggestions. This setup allows for quick navigation, and does not require any steps to set up new pages that I need to visit.

What I want to say that while you seem to imply that you found a different pattern of use that many people will soon migrate to, I think these patterns have always been popular. People discover and make use of them as needed.

It’s also strange that you put such a negative sentiment on interconnected documents. Do you not realize how important these connections were for you to be able to reach the point you are at now? How else would you have found the things that are useful to you? By watching ads?

Search engines are also … really not really a good example of the strengths of the interconnected web, as they are mostly a one way thing. Consider instead a Hacker News discussion about a blog, and some other blog linking to that discussion, creating these interconnected but still separate communities and documents.

Re: Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search

#113

Post by rmgk »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #107
mb7733 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've been experimenting with creating single-site browsers[1] for all websites I routinely visit, effectively removing navigational queries from search engines Surely it would make more sense to use bookmarks?

The bookmark interface on modern browsers is pretty awkward to access. It's a bigger upfront effort to set up an SSB, but they significantly streamline the user experience once they're set up in a way that aligns with what you want to do. Web Browsers have a sort of inner platform tendency where they roll their own window management, and it just gets very messy and integrates incredibly poorly with the window managem…

While I understand the utility of separating contexts and making “distractions” from the current context harder to access. Doesn’t better integration into your system window management kinda defeat this separation again? Is there a significant difference in having a porn tab open or a porn windows open?

It’s great if this separation works for you and your current setup, but what does prevent future you from building muscle memory to quickly switch back to porn when you want to procrastinate your taxes?

Re: Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search

#114

Post by marginalia_nu »

rmgk wrote: post #111
marginalia_nu wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been experimenting with creating single-site browsers[1] for all websites I routinely visit, effectively removing navigational queries from search engines; between that and Claude being able to answer technical questions, it's remarkable how rarely I even use browsers for day-to-day tasks anymore (as in web views with tabs and url bars). We've been using the web (as in documents interconnected with links between…

While I am glad that you seem to have found a new workflow that you like, your description strikes me as a personal experience. I am aware that a lot of people use searches as a form of navigation, but it’s also very common that people use bookmarks, speed dial, history, pinned tabs, and other browser features instead of searching. My Firefox is configured to not do online searches when I type into the address bar, i…

> It’s also strange that you put such a negative sentiment on interconnected documents. Do you not realize how important these connections were for you to be able to reach the point you are at now? How else would you have found the things that are useful to you? By watching ads?

This is specifically in the context of getting things done, not e.g. reading an interesting article for the enjoyment, but as an indirect means accomplish a task.

Re: Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search

#115

Post by blindriver »

Almost everyone I know has moved a lot of their searching onto ChatGPT or WhatsApp AI querying.

Everyone I know under 25 has stopped using Google search altogether.

I think the only people disabling JavaScript must be GenX graybeards such as myself or security experts.

Re: Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search

#117

Post by oefrha »

altfredd wrote: post #102
supriyo-biswas wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I run a semi-popular website hosting user-generated content, although it's not a search engine; the attacks on it have surprised me, and I've eventually had to put in the same kinds of restrictions on it. I was initially very hesitant to restrict any kind of traffic, relying on ratelimiting IPs on critical endpoints that needed low friction, and captchas on the higher friction with higher intents, such as signup and…

20000 RPS is very little — a web app / database running on an ordinary desktop computer can process up to 10000 RPS on a bare-metal configuration after some basic optimization. If that is half of your total average load, a single co-located server should be enough to eat entire "attack" without flinching. If you have "competitors" and I assume, that this is some kind of commercial product (including running profitabl…

This comment is so out of touch I’m almost speechless.

> > critical, compute heavy endpoints through multiple exit nodes totaling ~20,000 RPS

> 20000 RPS is very little

If I had to guess you’ve never hosted non-static websites so you can’t imagine what’s a compute heavy endpoint.

> Using Gmail should be a red flag on its own.

Yes, ban users signing up with Gmail then.

And this is not an isolated case, discussions on DDoS, CAPTCHAs, etc. here always have these out of touch people coming out of the woodwork. Baffling.

Re: Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search

#118

Post by markasoftware »

blindriver wrote: post #115

Almost everyone I know has moved a lot of their searching onto ChatGPT or WhatsApp AI querying. Everyone I know under 25 has stopped using Google search altogether. I think the only people disabling JavaScript must be GenX graybeards such as myself or security experts.

> Everyone I know under 25 has stopped using Google search altogether.

completely unhinged take. Everyone I know under 25, as someone under 25, uses Google search at least an order of magnitude more than they use AI querying.

Re: Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search

#119

Post by marginalia_nu »

rmgk wrote: post #113
marginalia_nu wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bookmark interface on modern browsers is pretty awkward to access. It's a bigger upfront effort to set up an SSB, but they significantly streamline the user experience once they're set up in a way that aligns with what you want to do. Web Browsers have a sort of inner platform tendency where they roll their own window management, and it just gets very messy and integrates incredibly poorly with the window managem…

While I understand the utility of separating contexts and making “distractions” from the current context harder to access. Doesn’t better integration into your system window management kinda defeat this separation again? Is there a significant difference in having a porn tab open or a porn windows open? It’s great if this separation works for you and your current setup, but what does prevent future you from building…

You can add friction when switching contexts using the desktop environment. This is largely impossible with browsers since they largely aren't meaningfully customizable. Opening a tab and navigating to a website is generally speaking something like 4-6 keypresses. On a desktop you can for example add more clicks by put all your launchers in a folder structure grouped by task.

Though I actually set up different user accounts for different tasks, then only add shortcuts for the tools that are in any way relevant for the given context. This creates deliberate friction when context switching, and requires upfront intent when selecting what I do. It's not that anything is off limits per se, but all undesirable state changes are made awkward. I simply can't check my email from my programming account, or check the build status on my social media account.

If I want to go from monitoring a build on CI to e.g. paying the bills, I'd have to log out from the work account and shut everything down, then log into the business account, and open the bank SSB. This makes doing these particular tasks as easy as ever, but directionless task switching a serious pain in the ass.

Re: Google begins requiring JavaScript for Google Search

#120

Post by post-it »

lemoncookiechip wrote: post #96

What I find amusing is that this is Google. It's their bots, and now LLMs as well, that have hammered people's websites for years.

Have they hammered people's websites? I find that the Google bot makes as few requests as it can, and it respects robots.txt.
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