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Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

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Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#111

Post by chaoskanzlerin »

the__alchemist wrote: post #93
UseofWeapons1 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had to look this up. In California in particular, this is true, which surprised me. Per a random law firm: California’s yellow light law permits drivers to enter an intersection during a yellow light. No violation exists unless any part of the car is over the stopping line when the light turns red. However, the law encourages drivers to slow down before reaching the intersection. Whereas in, for example, Massachuse…

If this surprises you, consider the alternative: Driving through a yellow being illegal or unexpected doesn't make sense, given the finite stopping distance of cars, and reaction time of humans. This is because the yellow light is the first explicit indicator you must stop. If this doesn't make sense still, picture this scenario: You are driving at the speed limit. You are 500ms from crossing the stop line threshold.…

Austria does that: 4 seconds of the green light flashing in order to announce the yellow light.

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#112

Post by JB_Dev »

DHPersonal wrote: post #48
jagged-chisel wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OT, but it fired me up a bit - people that enter the intersection on green or orange awaiting a break to turn left. And then don’t clear the intersection on red. Now they’re in everyone’s way. How do you get them to understand they’ve already “run the light” and just need to move?

I remember my father telling me that was how it was supposed to be done, as the yellow light for oncoming traffic would convince them to stop and give you the time to complete the left turn. It only worked when they weren't also running the yellow light! These days I prefer waiting to turn so that I'm not stuck out in the middle of the intersection when the traffic light changes.

If you do not wait in the intersection itself then you would never get a chance to turn in many intersections. The only solution is to always wait in the intersection itself.

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#113

Post by addicted »

munchler wrote: post #11

> I captured two drivers ripping through red lights in that short span Video actually shows two cars entering the intersection on yellow lights, which is legal. The rest of the article seems similarly exaggerated. ---- Edit: For those who disagree, please be aware that the stop lines are out of frame, so both cars are already in the intersection before they're visible on the video. You can get a better picture of wha…

Except the article doesn’t claim what the drivers are doing is illegal.

The article says that the street design causes drivers to speed up and makes the intersections unsafe.

Instead of drivers always stopping, or at the very least slowing down, when approaching the intersection, the new street design leads to drivers speeding up when approaching the intersection.

This is bad design for pedestrians irrespective of whether the driver jumps a light, the pedestrians cross when they shouldn’t be, or neither of them are doing anything wrong.

It will increase the odds of collisions, injuries and possibly fatalities.

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#114

Post by fwip »

1970-01-01 wrote: post #69
inetknght wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pedestrians rightfully expect safe walking and biking infrastructure. Not everyone can drive. Most of those who can't drive also cannot afford a taxi or rideshare. Many of them also do not have friends or family who can get them where they need to go, and reliance on others is extremely demoralizing to independence. That says nothing of the carbon cost in fuel, the microparticle cost in tire and brake dust, or other…

I agree with everything you said except your first sentence. Why should people rightfully expect walking and biking infra to be paid for when it contributes so little to their economy?

Because human beings care about things that aren't the economy. Do you actually evaluate all public spending on this sole metric, or just the things you don't personally desire?

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#115

Post by Ensorceled »

potato3732842 wrote: post #25

As a pedestrian I will take a busy light controlled intersection with a pedestrian scramble type walk signal over a busy 4-way stop where every single time. With the 4-way stop there is never a time in the cycle when all traffic is stopped. The drivers who are present are continuously paying attention to what other drivers are doing which robs them of situational awareness to note pedestrians. You can try and time it…

This is just not true.

In Toronto for instance, the majority of pedestrian deaths are caused by impaired/distracted drivers with a significant portion of failure to yield by left turning drivers at major, light controlled intersections.

There isn't even a category for "four way stop" pedestrian fatalities.

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#117

Post by PittleyDunkin »

itishappy wrote: post #47
potato3732842 wrote: post #25

As a pedestrian I will take a busy light controlled intersection with a pedestrian scramble type walk signal over a busy 4-way stop where every single time. With the 4-way stop there is never a time in the cycle when all traffic is stopped. The drivers who are present are continuously paying attention to what other drivers are doing which robs them of situational awareness to note pedestrians. You can try and time it…

> With the 4-way stop there is never a time when all traffic is stopped and the drivers are always paying attention to what other drivers are doing. With the walk signal there is a brief moment in time when the drivers are doing nothing but waiting for you and are all stopped so you as a pedestrian can account for them in preparation just before you get your signal and make your move. That's... not true? With light t…

> With light traffic a 4 way stop should have no cars at all at it most of the time

Unless there's protected right turns, of course.

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#118

Post by affinepplan »

SoftTalker wrote: post #50
affinepplan wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is a very uncharitable characterization of communities' desires for safe, quiet, and walkable/bikeable neighborhoods

It does sometimes seem that they think they should be able to walk/bike without concern for their own safety. I see pedestrians step into traffic and bicycles blow traffic signals and stop signs all the time. Safety and situational awareness is everyone's responsibility.

I guess I kind feel like yeah the person operating the heavy machinery at high speed does bear more responsibility for the damage they cause rather than their victims

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#120

Post by avgDev »

DHPersonal wrote: post #82
munchler wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's false. The stop line for cars is out of frame in the video, and the driver has already passed it by the time the light turns red. You can get a better view of what the intersection actually looks like here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/L37hZyvXs8BeWmFE8

I think it depends on what one uses as the definition of intersection. Is it the actual point where the two roads collide, or is it at the stop line?

You can't be serious. The stop line is where the intersection begins. If you cross the stop line on yellow you won't get a ticket and it is perfectly legal in most US states.
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