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GitHub Git Operations Are Down

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Re: GitHub Git Operations Are Down

#111

Post by School-Cotton »

__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #110
sixo wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

people could not be more clear that their preference is for reliable and easy-to-use centralized services maintained by professionals, and not decentralized systems that require a great deal of user expertise

And I'm sure they'll continue to feel that way right up until the first time they experience "the" internet from a minority partition for more than a few days. I just hope that the distributed stuff is easy enough to limp along with if/when that happens.

No, they'll continue to feel like that even after that. GitHub being down once in a blue moon is more acceptable to the vast majority of users than having to cobble together your own nerdy distributed version of everything.

Re: GitHub Git Operations Are Down

#112

Post by 0xbadcafebee »

parpfish wrote: post #100
jcims wrote: post #88

Tangential at best but I work in a regulated industry and we're starting to get some heavy scrutiny from external auditors and regulators on the way we plan to address extended outages and forced exits from third party vendors. This goes beyond basic DR/BCP and plans are reviewed with at least a high level scenario exercise. https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2023/06/09/2023-12... On the surface a product like…

but if you self host, how do you anticipate power outages and natural disasters? you shift it from a problem of software reliability to a problem of physical infrastructure. at some point in the chain somebody has to do that, but i'd prefer the person doing that was somebody with DEEP experience in it that could give you some nice confident assurances.

Basically you rent space and machines in datacenters that are geographically distributed and designed to resist natural disasters

Re: GitHub Git Operations Are Down

#113

Post by croemer »

manfre wrote: post #94
freewizard wrote: post #62

It was down for ~2 hours. The status website claims "degraded performance", but in reality we get git@github.com: Permission denied (publickey). Either GitHub didn't know how to communicate, or they were not sure about the real impact. This is bad.

Status pages are rarely honest. The company will lie to salvage their SLA. "Degraded performance" or "some customers are experiencing an elevated error rate" should be interpreted as "service unavailable / outage"

Someone else lamenting the delayed status page updates almost 2 years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35887213

Re: GitHub Git Operations Are Down

#114

Post by [deleted] »

sixo wrote: post #19
crest wrote: post #13

It's almost as if only Git is distributed, but people sold out to Github for convenience. Too bad Git lacks a distributed bug tracker and wiki system like Fossil. Guess Github has to fail a lot more for things to change.

people could not be more clear that their preference is for reliable and easy-to-use centralized services maintained by professionals, and not decentralized systems that require a great deal of user expertise

[deleted]

Re: GitHub Git Operations Are Down

#115

Post by nextaccountic »

crest wrote: post #13

It's almost as if only Git is distributed, but people sold out to Github for convenience. Too bad Git lacks a distributed bug tracker and wiki system like Fossil. Guess Github has to fail a lot more for things to change.

> Too bad Git lacks a distributed bug tracker

Well there is https://github.com/git-bug/git-bug

Re: GitHub Git Operations Are Down

#117

Post by jcims »

dangero wrote: post #98
jcims wrote: post #88

Tangential at best but I work in a regulated industry and we're starting to get some heavy scrutiny from external auditors and regulators on the way we plan to address extended outages and forced exits from third party vendors. This goes beyond basic DR/BCP and plans are reviewed with at least a high level scenario exercise. https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2023/06/09/2023-12... On the surface a product like…

That's a lot of overhead. Do you know how they are calculating the possible risk of these events? It feels like there are a million rabbit holes like this you could go down when modern infrastructure is so cloud connected. Is the risk of your git repos higher than a chip shortage causing you to lose access to the infrastructure you need? So many factors to consider. A chip shortage doesn't seem that unlikely with geo…

It's an astonishing amount of overhead that slows everything to a veritable crawl. It also creates downstream issues because you need to build in contingencies for your service consumers until you are able to fully abstract the dependency to a point where rehoming doesn't impact them.

The risk calculations are very primitive at the moment, I'm guessing they will be refined over time as industry feedback starts to resonate.

Re: GitHub Git Operations Are Down

#118

Post by macintux »

jcims wrote: post #88

Tangential at best but I work in a regulated industry and we're starting to get some heavy scrutiny from external auditors and regulators on the way we plan to address extended outages and forced exits from third party vendors. This goes beyond basic DR/BCP and plans are reviewed with at least a high level scenario exercise. https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2023/06/09/2023-12... On the surface a product like…

The nice thing about git, from my perspective, is that if your entire hosted service vanishes, you can still reconstruct what you need from your users’ working directories. All of the important branches should be there. Somewhere. And any important integration branches that aren’t cached can be reconstructed.

Of all the many dependencies on cloud services, git is by far the last I’d worry overly much about.

Re: GitHub Git Operations Are Down

#119

Post by __MatrixMan__ »

School-Cotton wrote: post #111
__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I'm sure they'll continue to feel that way right up until the first time they experience "the" internet from a minority partition for more than a few days. I just hope that the distributed stuff is easy enough to limp along with if/when that happens.

No, they'll continue to feel like that even after that. GitHub being down once in a blue moon is more acceptable to the vast majority of users than having to cobble together your own nerdy distributed version of everything.

I was imagining something a bit more disastrous than that. A big enough solar flare could take parts of the planet offline for months. Years if they can't source enough replacement transformers. There are also political reasons that countries go offline.

Then it'll be up to the nerds who manage to cobble together their own distributed version of everything--even if it's a significantly reduced definition of everything.

Re: GitHub Git Operations Are Down

#120

Post by manwe150 »

bluGill wrote: post #87
nine_k wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, conveniences like: - A canonical name and place on the web; - Access policy enforcement (who can commit and when); - The whole pull request thing, with tags, issues, review, discussion, etc linked to it; - Code review, linked to said policy enforcement; - Issue tracking, even as basic as what GitHub offers; - A trusted store for signing keys, so commits are verified; - CI/CD triggers and runners; - A page with r…

The above is why my company left mercurial years ago for git. Mercurial of 10 years ago was better version control than git (git still can't track a branch and how it changes) - but the rest of github is much better.

The git reflog tracks branches and how they changed. Is that roughly what mercurial has? (It’s been more than a decade since I switched from hg to git as well, so my remaining memory is minimal). GitHub also has an API for querying historical branch info, which is more permanent than reflog, though quite annoying to parse for that info if I recall right.
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