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JPMorgan Workers Ponder Union in Wake of Return-to-Office Mandate

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Re: JPMorgan Workers Ponder Union in Wake of Return-to-Office Mandate

#111

I dislike RTO for one simple reason . I'm not at work to make friends, I'm not at work to chit chat. I'm not at work so we can talk about who won the last football game . I go to work in exchange for currency, which is required to acquire goods and services. All this other crap, all these holiday parties, all of this let's dance in diversity videos, no that's not what I'm here for . Most of the time coming to the off…

> We're just talking to each other, shooting the s*, and it was cool to meet some Junior Devs who were just starting their career. But none of that made me a more productive worker.

I solved an incredibly difficult technical problem while grabbing lunch during PAX with fellow co-workers.

Spending time face-to-face with team members as a lead help me keep track of who needed some extra time off, who was at risk of burn out, and who was being harassed out of band by PMs.

One of the most powerful things my team did was have cookies out in front of her desks everyday. Other devs would stop by the chit chat and it let us keep a pulse on how the entire war was doing. My team was able to get a lot more done and hope everyone succeed because we had not just technical connections but personal connections throughout the building.

Those personal connections also let me transfer top performers onto my team, people who would otherwise have left the org due to dissatisfaction with their current team.

Knowing individual developers one-on-one also helps me know what problems they're going to have with their code and blind spots in their technical knowledge.

Finally, there's a fact that trust is earned through time spent together. As a junior member of a team, I was able to propose some radical alternative solutions to problems because of how much time I'd spent talking to the tech leads above me.

That said, the working conditions in most offices are so bad, I see what people want to stay home myself included.

Even Microsoft, who years ago commissioned studies showing the massive productivity gains from individual offices, has gone against their own best practices and resorted to loud open office nightmare environments.

I think part of this is because corporations no longer expect individual engineers to come up with radical solutions to hard problems and are okay with mediocre solutions to everyday problems instead.

In my opinion, this results in massive numbers of employees being hired to create complex solutions. When one quarter of the employees could have got the job done if they were treated well.

Another aspect of everything going wrong is that American cities are so poorly designed with constrained housing that commute times have gotten way out of hand. Even in the early to mid 2000s when I started my career it was possible for people to live 15 minutes from work or buy a house 20 minutes away. I used to have a round-trip commute time of under 10 minutes so of course I didn't mind coming into the office.

Re: JPMorgan Workers Ponder Union in Wake of Return-to-Office Mandate

#112

The key to me is the flexibility - I have the option of WFH 2 days per week, but most weeks I'm in the office 5 days (sometimes a half day on Saturday) because I am fortunate to have a "real office" with a door, a nice view, a stocked break area - and no home distractions. If I was still in a cube farm with a barely stocked vending machine (where I spent the vast majority of my career) I'd be using every WFH moment I…

3 in, 2 out here but I'm in the office for four days just because I work better in the office.

My one bedroom apartment is my home. Not an office to work in.

Maybe if I had a spare room, but I like the feeling of leaving work at work and coming home not to know I need to work here tomorrow.

Re: JPMorgan Workers Ponder Union in Wake of Return-to-Office Mandate

#113
post #85
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only new thing there is they'll threaten replace you with AI

Or Indian IIT grads with AI tools. For tis the sport to watch the engineers hoist by their collective petards.

To be honest, I almost welcome major collapse resulting from AI intern imploding major US corporation with one bad code submission auto-approved by a contractor.

Re: JPMorgan Workers Ponder Union in Wake of Return-to-Office Mandate

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It pains me to say this, but I find in-person discussions more productive than online ones. It's not just shooting the shit--for me, spontaneous social chats often lead to work-related brainstorming. Being in the office next to co-workers leads to more spontaneous discussions.

Have you ever thought of why? Just ‘magic’, is an open doorway for bias and unreliable memory to enter and influence the conversation. Is it perhaps that there are specific people, who are doing the ideation, or are particularly good at helping you think? Or is it anyone and everyone? If it’s anyone, then is it a social / biological quirk? Is it something else? For everyone reading, this is worth reflecting upon, if…

Don't overcomplicate things. Whiteboards are way better than even the best of online tools and drawing with a mouse.

For that matter, post-it notes on a wall are better than JIRA.

At one workplace everyone had glass table so they could draw on with markers. People could literally come up to your desk and you could work through problems together on one end of the table.

The best online tools are garbage compared to physicality.

Re: JPMorgan Workers Ponder Union in Wake of Return-to-Office Mandate

#115
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It pains me to say this, but I find in-person discussions more productive than online ones. It's not just shooting the shit--for me, spontaneous social chats often lead to work-related brainstorming. Being in the office next to co-workers leads to more spontaneous discussions.

I find the opposite. People frequently show up to meetings in person unprepared. They are also way less likely to document the discussion - which can now be done with AI transcribing the discussion... which is even more productive. There is way more shooting the shit in person.

I’m not sure about AI transcribing the discussion, is a great idea generally, as I’m not sure I want all the company secrets sent off to some random AI startup, but I also don’t see what precludes you from using it to transcribe an in person meeting.

Re: JPMorgan Workers Ponder Union in Wake of Return-to-Office Mandate

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It pains me to say this, but I find in-person discussions more productive than online ones. It's not just shooting the shit--for me, spontaneous social chats often lead to work-related brainstorming. Being in the office next to co-workers leads to more spontaneous discussions.

Yep. Also in person mentoring and spontaneous collaboration. In person and remote both have advantages and will work better or worse for different people, organizations, or situations.

The number of times, early in my career, I had senior engineers come and hold impromptu learning sessions is one of the reasons why I'm such a good engineer today.

Being able to have robust discussions about software engineering, best practices and design patterns and all that good stuff and have other engineers hear that discussions happening and stop by to give their input is incredibly valuable to both personal growth and oftentimes the success of a product.

Re: JPMorgan Workers Ponder Union in Wake of Return-to-Office Mandate

#117

I dislike RTO for one simple reason . I'm not at work to make friends, I'm not at work to chit chat. I'm not at work so we can talk about who won the last football game . I go to work in exchange for currency, which is required to acquire goods and services. All this other crap, all these holiday parties, all of this let's dance in diversity videos, no that's not what I'm here for . Most of the time coming to the off…

>I dislike RTO for one simple reason . I'm not at work to make friends, I'm not at work to chit chat. I'm not at work so we can talk about who won the last football game . I go to work in exchange for currency, which is required to acquire goods and services. All this other crap, all these holiday parties, all of this let's dance in diversity videos, no that's not what I'm here for .

Oldhead here. This was a common thought pattern before lockdowns, but only among the ~5% of people who personally negotiated for a work-from-home/telecommuting arrangement. And it was not normal. It was vaguely looked down upon by superiors, unless you had been with the company for a long time and had proven your value. And among peers it was a little "weird."

"Return to office" post-lockdown is not the same thing as "Work from home" pre-lockdown. The RTO thought pattern is similar, but the social feeling around it has flipped - is normal and not weird. (Yet still vaguely looked down on by some management)

Re: JPMorgan Workers Ponder Union in Wake of Return-to-Office Mandate

#118

I dislike RTO for one simple reason . I'm not at work to make friends, I'm not at work to chit chat. I'm not at work so we can talk about who won the last football game . I go to work in exchange for currency, which is required to acquire goods and services. All this other crap, all these holiday parties, all of this let's dance in diversity videos, no that's not what I'm here for . Most of the time coming to the off…

> I imagine the entire point of RTO mandates is to keep cities sustainable. The main important factor IMO is mentorship of junior talent. (I'm speaking for technical orgs) Viewing the organization as a living organism where an employee is a "cell", then there are material benefits in the "cellular replication" of talent and rejuvenation of the next generation. It can definitely be true that RTO is worse for an indivi…

Completely, agree. I think am lot of senior engineers work well independently and feel more productive at home. They miss that this isn’t always the case for more junior ones.

Re: JPMorgan Workers Ponder Union in Wake of Return-to-Office Mandate

#119

I dislike RTO for one simple reason . I'm not at work to make friends, I'm not at work to chit chat. I'm not at work so we can talk about who won the last football game . I go to work in exchange for currency, which is required to acquire goods and services. All this other crap, all these holiday parties, all of this let's dance in diversity videos, no that's not what I'm here for . Most of the time coming to the off…

> If I had to think, I imagine the entire point of RTO mandates is to keep cities sustainable. In a few cases (certainly not all), it's to keep the c-suite's reputation sustainable. If you're a CEO that signed a lease or construction contract on any piece of property since, idk, 2015, you have, in some way, burned a lot of money on a piece of ground that could have, in many cases, been replaced with a far cheaper int…

>If you're a CEO that signed a lease or construction contract on any piece of property since, idk, 2015, you have, in some way, burned a lot of money on a piece of ground that could have, in many cases, been replaced with a far cheaper internet connection and suite of remote work applications.

>1) explain this bonfire of cash to the board and possibly to shareholders, which is a pretty good way to see yourself shown the door"

I don't get it? Is this supposed to be bad look for the CEO because he wasn't prescient enough to predict the covid pandemic and the wfh revolution 5 years before it happened? Given how frequent next quarters' forecasts get revised, I don't think the board expects CEOs to be that prescient.

Re: JPMorgan Workers Ponder Union in Wake of Return-to-Office Mandate

#120

I dislike RTO for one simple reason . I'm not at work to make friends, I'm not at work to chit chat. I'm not at work so we can talk about who won the last football game . I go to work in exchange for currency, which is required to acquire goods and services. All this other crap, all these holiday parties, all of this let's dance in diversity videos, no that's not what I'm here for . Most of the time coming to the off…

Then maybe you aren't a culture fit for that employer / office?

My experience is just so different. I love the vibe and the camaraderie of my office. It makes it fun to work there.

Just sitting at home working, never interacting with people in person sounds really dull and boring and cold to me. I had to do that in 2020 and I hated it.

Productivity is nice, but IMO it's not all about productivity. As a worker I value my enjoyment of the job, and just being a robotic super productive worker is not as enjoyable as actually feeling like you are part of a team or community and having fun with your fellow coworkers.

We spend so much of our lives on the clock, I would hate to have it all just be serious productive work 100% of the time.

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