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World's darkest and clearest skies at risk from industrial megaproject

eso.org

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Re: World's darkest and clearest skies at risk from industrial megaproject

#111
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt that "land use" is a big issue in one of the least densely populated countries on earth. Surely one could find a place for an industrial site that is not within 5 km of the world's prime telescope site. Using the existing infrastructure probably makes it slightly cheaper though.

I thought space was the the world's prime telescope site.

think that might be stretching the definition of “world” a bit far

Re: World's darkest and clearest skies at risk from industrial megaproject

#112
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The telescopes are 8,000 miles south of America. Why does American policy matter?

I know the crowd here (mostly from USA) hates this kind of comment, but as a SOUTH AMERICAN, can I point out the absurdity of this kind of sentence? Chile is a South American country, in the American continent, and is 8000 miles south of America somehow. I know the why's and the meaning intented, no need to explain. Wont stop pointing this out though, as it will always feel to me as a example of the general disregard…

Despite not asking for an explanation, I’ll give one anyway since you seem not to have resolved your grievance.

“American” is the correct adjective in English to describe the United States’ people and government. There is simply no equivalent to the Spanish “estadounidense.”

Furthermore, North America and South America are considered to be separate continents, and if you want to refer to them both together, you say “the Americas”, plural.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americas

Re: World's darkest and clearest skies at risk from industrial megaproject

#113
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The telescopes are 8,000 miles south of America. Why does American policy matter?

I know the crowd here (mostly from USA) hates this kind of comment, but as a SOUTH AMERICAN, can I point out the absurdity of this kind of sentence? Chile is a South American country, in the American continent, and is 8000 miles south of America somehow. I know the why's and the meaning intented, no need to explain. Wont stop pointing this out though, as it will always feel to me as a example of the general disregard…

[deleted]

Re: World's darkest and clearest skies at risk from industrial megaproject

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hydrogen/syngas right now is the only way forward for long distance sea or plane travel, since batteries are too heavy.

We're going to get a 4x energy density improvement from lithium sulfur batteries, just as soon as production ramps up.

Wikipedia lists the energy density of kerosene as 9.7k Wh/L, and lithium sulfur at 550 Wh/L, which is not great.

Re: World's darkest and clearest skies at risk from industrial megaproject

#115

Definitely a hard choice between an industrial complex generating thousands of jobs and a glorified camera.

Gee, mapping every object in the observable universe (and possibly saving us from catastrophic meteor strikes) or pumping out a few more tons of ammonia?

Framing does an awful lot of work.

Re: World's darkest and clearest skies at risk from industrial megaproject

#116
post #98
post #80

I'm noticing that the reporting on this, including the ESO press release, is vague on exactly what this "industrial megaproject" happens to be. Ordinarily, there is no hesitation to disclose this, unless it's a military matter. Or a sacred cow. A sacred cow, indeed. It's a green energy operation powered by both wind and solar to generate hydrogen, electricity and ammonia. Here[1] is the AES Andes press release about…

I doubt that "land use" is a big issue in one of the least densely populated countries on earth. Surely one could find a place for an industrial site that is not within 5 km of the world's prime telescope site. Using the existing infrastructure probably makes it slightly cheaper though.

The omission of this information is partly why I'm suspicious of the article. A well written article would have included things such as the above information about what the project was and additionally why it was being proposed for the given site. Omitting any information on the other side of the equation, and talking only about the impacts it will have on the observatory sure sounds like activist propaganda to me.

Re: World's darkest and clearest skies at risk from industrial megaproject

#117
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt that "land use" is a big issue in one of the least densely populated countries on earth. Surely one could find a place for an industrial site that is not within 5 km of the world's prime telescope site. Using the existing infrastructure probably makes it slightly cheaper though.

I thought space was the the world's prime telescope site.

Not really, due to the costs and constraints of space-based telescopes

Re: World's darkest and clearest skies at risk from industrial megaproject

#118
post #94
post #80

I'm noticing that the reporting on this, including the ESO press release, is vague on exactly what this "industrial megaproject" happens to be. Ordinarily, there is no hesitation to disclose this, unless it's a military matter. Or a sacred cow. A sacred cow, indeed. It's a green energy operation powered by both wind and solar to generate hydrogen, electricity and ammonia. Here[1] is the AES Andes press release about…

Everyone I know in environmental activism hates hydrogen and sees it as green-washing the petrochemical industry.

Environmental activists have their own biases and blind spots.

Re: World's darkest and clearest skies at risk from industrial megaproject

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dirty mining and manufacturing of batteries is the dumbest red herring there is. It's like saying we need to get rid of toilet paper because it cuts down so many trees. Hydrogen on the other hand clearly is pushed by fossil fuels since it leaves the door open for them to be a major player.

Hydrogen/syngas right now is the only way forward for long distance sea or plane travel, since batteries are too heavy.

hydrogen definitely not the only way for long distance sea, nuclear would just make so much more sense. and for place travel it also such the same as batteries, first of all its an explosive gas and second we only get less than 20%. hydrogen is just not a good solution to anything other than being a byproduct in the natural gas industry.

Re: World's darkest and clearest skies at risk from industrial megaproject

#120
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They may feel that way, but that seems emotional rather than rational. The choices for small-scale energy sources are: batteries with all their dirty mining, biofuels taking away lots of arable land from food/textile/etc production, or fuel cells which can still involve petrochemicals (but don't have to). There are no perfect options, and strapping enough solar panels or wind turbines to a vehicle (car, bus, train, a…

What dirty mining for batteries? Please be specific. This story was always a PR drive that focused on the "dirtiness" of batteries but never compares it to the dirtiness of all the other parts of competing technologies. And talking about the "dirtiness" of batteries but not every other single part of our industry (steel for everything, all the nasty stuff for electrolyzers, etc.) is all part of prioritizing emotional…

There’s a lot of pressure for batteries to become cleaner too, which has resulted in a lot of money going into R&D of more effective chemistries comprised of more readily available materials. It’s difficult to express the sheer momentum we have in this field right now and it would be a shame if cold water got dumped on it by negative public perception, cooling investments. It’d be a textbook example of letting the perfect being the enemy of the good and of squandered potential.
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