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Phi 4 available on Ollama

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111–120 of 138 posts

Re: Phi 4 available on Ollama

#111
post #6

Was disappointed in all the Phi models before this, whose benchmark results scored way better than it worked in practice, but I've been really impressed with how good Phi-4 is at just 14B. We've run it against the top 1000 most popular StackOverflow questions and it came up 3rd beating out GPT-4 and Sonnet 3.5 in our benchmarks, only behind DeepSeek v3 and WizardLM 8x22B [1]. We're using Mixtral 8x7B to grade the qua…

> but luckily now that it's MIT licensed it's available on OpenRouter

Did it have a different license before? If so, why did they change it?

Re: Phi 4 available on Ollama

#112
post #27

Over the holidays, we published a post[1] on using high-precision few-shot examples to get `gpt-4o-mini` to perform similar to `gpt-4o`. I just re-ran that same experiment, but swapped out `gpt-4o-mini` with `phi-4`. `phi-4` really blew me away in terms of learning from few-shots. It measured as being 97% consistent with `gpt-4o` when using high-precision few-shots! Without the few-shots, it was only 37%. That's a hu…

I like the direction, but have a pretty different experience in practice. This spans legal analytics, social media analytics, code synthesis, news analysis, cyber security LLMs, etc: 1. The only ultimate absolute quality metric I saw in that blogpost afaict was expert agreement... at 90%. All of our customers would fire us at that level across all of the diff b2b domains we work in. I'm surprised 90% is considered ac…

What's your loop for prompt engineering with GPT-4o? Do you feed the meta-prompter the misclassified examples? Also does the evaluation drive the synthetic data production almost like boosting?

Re: Phi 4 available on Ollama

#113
post #43
post #9

It’s odd that MS is releasing models they are competitors to OA. This reinforce the idea that there is no real strategic advantage in owning a model. I think the strategy is now offer cheap and performant infra to run the models.

> This reinforce the idea that there is no real strategic advantage in owning a model For these models probably no. But for proprietary things that are mission critical and purpose-built (think Adobe Creative Suite) the calculus is very different. MS, Google, Amazon all win from infra for open source models. I have no idea what game Meta is playing

> I have no idea what game Meta is playing

I think they're commoditizing their complement [1]. Engaging content helps Meta, and LLMs make it easier to create that content. Their business model has never been selling API access and releasing the model enables the community to improve it for them.

[1] https://gwern.net/complement

Re: Phi 4 available on Ollama

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open AI is the only company that really matters in the consumer conversational AI space. Their unique value-adds are the Chat GPT brand, being the "default destination" when people want AI, as well as all the "extra features" they add on top of raw LLMs, like the ability to do internet searches, recall facts about you from previous conversations, present data in a nice, interactive way by writing a react app, call do…

> in the consumer conversational AI space. The "consumer conversational AI space" only exists right now as a novelty, not a long-term market segment. In the not too distant future that space will be covered for most users for free by their hardware manufacturers, and the number of people willing to pay a monthly subscription to a third party will drop even further than it already has.

I think it will be at least a few years until your average Joe can run a speech to speech model on their phone.

Re: Phi 4 available on Ollama

#115

Is anyone blown away by how fast we got to running something this powerful locally? I know it's easy to get burnt out on llms but this is pretty incredible. I genuinely think we're only 2 years away from full custom local voice to voice llm assistants that grow with you like JOI in BR2049 and it's going to change how we think about being human and being social, and how we grow up.

I am blown away: a year ago I bought a M2 32G Mac to run local models. It seems like what I can run locally now just one year later is 10x more useful for NLP, data wrangling, RAG, experimenting with agents, etc. BTW, a few days ago I published a book on using Ollama. Here is a link to read it online https://leanpub.com/ollama/read

Which models do you recommend for that amount of memory?

Re: Phi 4 available on Ollama

#116
post #109
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I should emphasize that I really don't think the dystopian version of this is likely to happen - the one where "AGI/ASI" puts every human out of work and society collapses. Human beings have agency, and we are very good at rolling with the punches. We've survived waves of automation for hundreds of years. I'm much more confident that we will continue to find ways to use these things as tools that elevate us, not repl…

> We've survived waves of automation for hundreds of years. I'm much more confident that we will continue to find ways to use these things as tools that elevate us, not replace us. The difference with past technological breakthroughs is that they augmented what humans could do, but didn't have the potential to replace human labor altogether as AI does. They were disruptive, but humans were able to adapt to new career…

You truly believe we’re on a timeline that involves the replacement of anaesthesiologists, emergency medicine physicians, trauma surgeons, and so on, within a 20 year timeframe? AI progress in the last few years has been astounding, but the gaps between where we are and a true all-human-labour-is-inferior scenario is almost unfathomable.

Re: Phi 4 available on Ollama

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the direction, but have a pretty different experience in practice. This spans legal analytics, social media analytics, code synthesis, news analysis, cyber security LLMs, etc: 1. The only ultimate absolute quality metric I saw in that blogpost afaict was expert agreement... at 90%. All of our customers would fire us at that level across all of the diff b2b domains we work in. I'm surprised 90% is considered ac…

What's your loop for prompt engineering with GPT-4o? Do you feed the meta-prompter the misclassified examples? Also does the evaluation drive the synthetic data production almost like boosting?

'it varies' b/c we do everything from an interactive analytics chat agent (loiue.ai UI) to data-intensive continuous-monitoring (louie.ai pipelines) to one-off customer assists like $B court cases

1. Common themes in our development-time loop:

* We don't do synthetic data. We do real data or anonymized data. When we lack data, we go and get some. That may mean paying people, doing it ourselves, setting up simulation environments, etc.

* We start with synthetic judges, esp for scale tasks that are simple and thus considering smaller models like gpt-4o-mini (the topic here). Before we worry about expert agreement, we worry about gpt-4o agreement, and make evals that cover concerns like sample size and class imbalance...

* ... When the task is high value, e.g., tied closely to a paying customer deliverable or core product workflow, we invest more on expert evals, making calls like on how many experts and of what caliber. Informally, we've learned multiple of our teammates, despite good at what they do, can be lousy experts, while others are known for precision, even if not data people (ex: our field staff can be great!). Likewise, we hire subject matter experts as full-timers (ex: former europol/fbi equivs!), source as contractors, and, partner with our customers here.

* After a year+ of prompt engineering with different tasks, models, data, and prompt styles, there's a lot of rote tricks & standard practices we know. Most are 'static' -- you can audit a prompt for gotchas & top examples to fill in -- and a smaller number are like in the OP's suggestion of dynamic prompts where we include elements like RAG.

On the last point, it seems incredibly automatable, so I keep trying tools. I've found automatic prompt optimizers like dspy to be disappointing in being unable to match what our prompt engineers can do here: they did not do better then prompts we wrote as experts with bare bones iteration, and leaning into the tools failed to get noticeable lift. I don't think this is inherent, just they're probably eval'ing against people we would consider trainees. Ex: I see what stanford medical fellows+phds are doing for their genai publications, and they would probably benefit from dspy if it was easier, but again, we would classify them as 'interns' wrt the quality of prompt engineering I see them doing behind-the-scenes. I'm optimistic that by 2026, tools here will be useful for skilled AI engineers too, just they're not there yet.

2. It's a lot more murky when we get into online+active learning loops for LLMs & agentic pipelines.

E.g., louie.ai works with live operational databases, where there is a lot wrt people + systems you can learn from, and issues like databases changing, differences in role & expertise, data privacy, adverserial data, and even the workflows change. Another area we deal with is data streams where the physical realities they're working with changes (questions+answers about logs, news, social, etc).

IMO these are a lot harder and one of the areas a lot of our 2025 energy is going. Conversely, 'automatic prompt engineering' seems like something PhDs can make big strides in a vacuum...

Re: Phi 4 available on Ollama

#118

I’ve pulled and ran it. It launches fine, but when I actually ask it anything I constantly get just a blank line. Does anyone else experience this?

I would guess on your hardware you're getting <1 token/time-you've-bothered-waiting?

Re: Phi 4 available on Ollama

#119
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am blown away: a year ago I bought a M2 32G Mac to run local models. It seems like what I can run locally now just one year later is 10x more useful for NLP, data wrangling, RAG, experimenting with agents, etc. BTW, a few days ago I published a book on using Ollama. Here is a link to read it online https://leanpub.com/ollama/read

Which models do you recommend for that amount of memory?

I asked the same question a few days back and I'm keeping the responses here: https://bsky.app/profile/potato.horse/post/3lejngewfmc2n

Re: Phi 4 available on Ollama

#120
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We've survived waves of automation for hundreds of years. I'm much more confident that we will continue to find ways to use these things as tools that elevate us, not replace us. The difference with past technological breakthroughs is that they augmented what humans could do, but didn't have the potential to replace human labor altogether as AI does. They were disruptive, but humans were able to adapt to new career…

You truly believe we’re on a timeline that involves the replacement of anaesthesiologists, emergency medicine physicians, trauma surgeons, and so on, within a 20 year timeframe? AI progress in the last few years has been astounding, but the gaps between where we are and a true all-human-labour-is-inferior scenario is almost unfathomable.

I could be wrong on the timeline. But are we not moving towards a future where even those professions are replaced by AI? The current wave of ML might not be the one to get us there, but there is an unprecedented level of interest and resources working to make that a reality. Regardless if they succeed or not, there is still a mountain of societal problems we need to address with even the current generation of this technology.

But my main argument is against the notion that this technology is the same as the ones that came before it, and that it will undoubtedly lead to a net better future. I think that is far from certain, and the way things are developing only leads me to believe that we're not ready for what we're building.

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