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Tesla reports 1.1% sales drop for 2024, first annual decline in at least 9 years

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Re: Tesla reports 1.1% sales drop for 2024, first annual decline in at least 9 years

#111
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Social media isn't most of the world. Not sure why you think this implication applies to my comment. If he yelled the comments in a public square, my comment would be the same.

> my comment would be the same As would mine. It's distasteful. But it brought and brings no consequences. Categorically distinct from his partisan activism.

Our definition of "no consequences" is very different, apparently. Have a good one.

Re: Tesla reports 1.1% sales drop for 2024, first annual decline in at least 9 years

#112
post #14

I'm nearly 50. I'm used to the idea of businesses owners having different politics than my own, but mostly that was the sort of self-interested "I'm wealthy and I think wealthy people should pay fewer taxes and their businesses should be subject to fewer regulations" sorts of things. You can disagree without thinking they're necessarily Bad People or worthy of boycotting their businesses. Indeed, it's the hallmark of…

I think it's more simply that the market of people who want an EV and can afford a Tesla is now saturated.

davidw wasn't implying that it was a cause, just commenting.

Re: Tesla reports 1.1% sales drop for 2024, first annual decline in at least 9 years

#113
post #15
post #4

Why's there so much hate for Tesla here on HN?

[flagged]

> Let's keep aside debate whether Elon is right or wrong for a moment.

It is the rightness or wrongness of what someone does that determines one's stance on that person. It makes no sense to try to analyze a change in stance without looking at the underlying rightness or wrongness.

Re: Tesla reports 1.1% sales drop for 2024, first annual decline in at least 9 years

#114
post #58

My friend said it best: "EVs are great second cars" I think we're finally hitting the saturation point of EVs as the market who adopted them is realizing their flaws as a primary vehicle: - Inadequate infrastructure (both localized "my apartment doesn't have a charging station" and more globally "I stopped at a supercharger station and it was full of people so my charge went from 100 kW to 15 kW and took 45 min to ch…

> My friend said it best: "EVs are great second cars"

I disagree. We've had an EV for ~5 years now, and have put about 10x as many miles on it as we have on our gasoline vehicle. The gasoline vehicle is the second car, and the EV is what we prefer for road trips.

> your tires wear 20~30% faster

Not in my experience, I'm getting 70k from a set of tires, which is comparable to previous cars. Just because a car can accelerate quickly doesn't mean you should.

> and you have to replace the battery every 10 years.

No you don't. Tesla's and BMW i3's from ~2013 are testing at around 85% battery capacity. https://www.wired.com/story/electric-cars-could-last-much-lo...

> The reality is it's not me that's saying this, the used car market is saying this.

Absolutely. You can buy a 3 year old Tesla Model 3 for $20k, cheaper than a comparable gasoline car, and seems like an excellent deal. If it wasn't for the Musk stigma we'd likely be purchasing one to replace our gasoline car.

Re: Tesla reports 1.1% sales drop for 2024, first annual decline in at least 9 years

#116
post #14

I'm nearly 50. I'm used to the idea of businesses owners having different politics than my own, but mostly that was the sort of self-interested "I'm wealthy and I think wealthy people should pay fewer taxes and their businesses should be subject to fewer regulations" sorts of things. You can disagree without thinking they're necessarily Bad People or worthy of boycotting their businesses. Indeed, it's the hallmark of…

After criticizing Israel he was "invited" over there, was completely deferential and wore the symbol of the Israel army in interview.

Sorry, a real antisemite wouldn't do that. What likely happened is that his comments were taken out of context and deliberately misinterpreted by the "left" (i.e., corporate and establishment friendly) media.

Re: Tesla reports 1.1% sales drop for 2024, first annual decline in at least 9 years

#117
post #47

[flagged]

After owning a Model Y for a year I have to say -- it's the best car I've ever had. Comfortable ride, the visibility with the cameras is great, amazing all-weather traction. It's freakin' fast. The voice-to-navigate works nearly 99% of the time which, given my experiences with Alexa and Siri, is quite impressive. All the usual EV caveats apply though. Being able to charge at home is a must. Living in a cold weather s…

> it's the best car I've ever had

That's going to be true for many car sales. People don't usually downgrade on cars, and there is real progress on car features over a typical period between buying cars. It'll be especially true if a brand like Tesla where most if their sales are coming from people who previously owned significantly cheaper cars.

Re: Tesla reports 1.1% sales drop for 2024, first annual decline in at least 9 years

#118
post #38
post #14

I'm nearly 50. I'm used to the idea of businesses owners having different politics than my own, but mostly that was the sort of self-interested "I'm wealthy and I think wealthy people should pay fewer taxes and their businesses should be subject to fewer regulations" sorts of things. You can disagree without thinking they're necessarily Bad People or worthy of boycotting their businesses. Indeed, it's the hallmark of…

I guess it speaks more to his utter lack of social skills than anything how he has managed to convince both the far left and far right he is simultaneously an Elder of Zion super-Liberal enemy as well as a white supremacist fascist enemy. Comments supporting both readings keep popping up as replies and then get insta-flagged.

You have almost no far left in the US. You have extreme ID politics (that are distributed on the far right, the right, the "extreme center" and socdems) and a bastardized radical center[0] that include almost every politicians, even those who appear socdems or far-right. And here i'm using far-right to designate people who want to come back on minority rights, and i separate it from the right.

(Because when supposed "far left" organizations use the word "empowerment", i just facepalm, that's "third way" bullshit imho)

I think Musk doesn't really understand his politics, and that's what hurt him. He should be in the extreme center (with Hillary, or Bush), but he was caught in ID politics for a long time.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_centrism

Re: Tesla reports 1.1% sales drop for 2024, first annual decline in at least 9 years

#120
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> reality is it's not me that's saying this, the used car market is saying this. EVs simply don't hold their value on the used market Those data defy simple explanation. The car with the highest 5-year depreciation is the Maserati Quattroporte (64.5%). After that the BMW 7 Series (61.8%) and Maserati Ghibli (61.3%). So for starters, you have to control for (a) sports and (b) expensive cars. Niches EVs have targeted.…

> you have to control for (a) sports and (b) expensive cars. Fair. But the opposite is also true...Porsche 911 and 718 are both 9% and 17% depreciation values respectively, which bring the overall averages down too. Not to mention the Model S is #19 in worst depreciation. So there are a lot of factors at play other than simply saying "just eliminate all sports/expensive cars" > The Model 3 is shown to have a 42.9% 5-…

I think the $7,500 federal tax credit screws up most people's depreciation calculation. Or at least not keeping that in mind skews people's perception. For example, I purchased a Nissan Leaf years ago, when it was still eligible for the full $7,500 credit. The MSRP was ~$28k. But I only paid ~$21.5k. So it seems like it suffered 23% depreciation the day I drove it off the lot, since no one would pay more than that for a used one, otherwise, they can just buy it brand new for $21.5k themselves. But that 23% number doesn't affect the owner of the car.
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