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Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

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Re: Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wine/proton work so well at this point it may as well just be considered just another runtime environment (like Java or the .Net vm).

Best stable ABI for linux :/ (somehow win32 is indeed best stable runtime for linux)

Sadly true.

Somehow people think bundling half of /usr/lib is the solution.

Re: Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

#112

The main criticism I see as valid here is first point: software distribution is tricky. For macOS and Windows you basically have a model where you can go to a website, download a binary, install it, and it runs. Most Linux distros won’t jive with that very well. And because every Linux distro uses a different theme and one of a dozen UI libraries/DEs/etc. the downloaded GUI application will look bad because it won’t…

> And because every Linux distro uses a different theme and one of a dozen UI libraries/DEs/etc. the downloaded GUI application will look bad because it won’t fit in.

Most apps/DEs/etc. use either GTK or Qt. If your application uses GTK or Qt, it will use the user's preferred GTK/Qt theme by default, and fit in with all the other GTK/Qt apps on their system.

Sure, you might get unlucky, and your GTK app won't look great on a KDE desktop where that user doesn't have any other GTK apps and it sticks out. Or vice versa for your Qt app on a GTK-based desktop where the user hasn't picked a matching Qt theme.

But unless, for some reason known only to yourself, you decided to write your app for FLTK, EFL, wx, or some other niche toolkit, your app is going to work like at least one other app on 90% of users systems. And for those users running FLWM, Enlightenment, or some other weird graphical environment, I'm sure they'll cope.

Re: Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, Nix makes some things very easy and other things very, very difficult. I hope the situation has improved, but the last time I had to deal with Nvidia (kernel/driver/library dependencies/updates/etc.) under Nix it did not remotely work out of the box and it was a huge pain. (And switching to AMD or intel was not really an option.) Doing anything off the beaten path seems to be challenging even if you…

In my experience, Nvidia drivers only work well under Nix, because their native installer loves to mess stateful systems.

Running a .run to install the nvidia drivers is a very bad idea if your distro packages them, especially on NixOS (does it even work?)

Re: Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

#114
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If somebody does to desktops like what Google did for smartphones, [...] Somebody does to desktops what Google did for smartphone. The company is called Microsoft, and the behaviour is called blatant monopoly abuse.

I'm referring to Linux being the basis of Android.

Outside of the Linux kernel, there is very little shared technology between Android and the Linux desktops.

They didn't even use the same graphics drivers till late.

Re: Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

#115
post #81

> Regressions are introduced all the time because Linux developers spend very little to no time checking that their code changes don't cause regressions or breakages outside of the problems they're trying to fix or features they're implementing. Wow. Such sweeping generalizations make me not want to pay attention to anything this article has to say. But let's entertain the possibility that parts of that statement are…

> It's practically impossible for "Linux developers"—whatever that means—to ensure that a change they make doesn't break something downstream. Unlike proprietary operating systems...

That's exactly the point, though. Linux will "never be ready for the desktop" because of the problems that this causes. Developers of software for Linux, not to mention kernel developers themselves, do not have the kind of funding that Microsoft has to test on a truly staggering number of hardware configurations. And on the opposite side of the spectrum, they don't have the luxury of supporting a comparatively small set of hardware combinations like Apple has.

Re: Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

#116
post #32

When I see the articles I believe the title should be "Linux is not Windows so I do not like it". I have used Linux for just shy of 30 years. It is different than Windows and far more powerful. It is just that people do not want to learn different things. Plus Linux has no spyware. These days, you can do anything on Linux that you do on Windows, except for some 3d Gaming. And that is because hardware vendors refuse t…

>These days, you can do anything on Linux that you do on Windows, except for some 3d Gaming. And that is because hardware vendors refuse to support Linux in the way they support Windows. It is the fault of Video vendors, most notability Nvidia. Even GPU drivers work fine for 90-99% of games on Linux. The biggest issue keeping certain games from running on Linux is actually anti-cheat support: https://areweanticheatye…

> And that is because hardware vendors refuse to support Linux in the way they support Windows

Because Linux does not support hardware (or at least new hardware) in the same Windows does.

AMD makes new graphics card, steps on Windows vs Linux to release an updated driver to support it

Windows - Update driver, release via Windows Update / Website etc

Linux - Send patches months in advance to the LKML using email, make sure any patches needed in Mesa are also sent in with a completely different system. Then, wait for your patches to be peer reviewed and land, then wait for a kernel release, then wait for distros to package said kernel and release it, which if you're on a distro that fixes to a kernel version, could be waiting 6 months.

Re: Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

#117

The main criticism I see as valid here is first point: software distribution is tricky. For macOS and Windows you basically have a model where you can go to a website, download a binary, install it, and it runs. Most Linux distros won’t jive with that very well. And because every Linux distro uses a different theme and one of a dozen UI libraries/DEs/etc. the downloaded GUI application will look bad because it won’t…

The fact that there’s flatpak AND snap (and the distro’s packages) just points to another nail in the coffin — there are just too many standards. If people could at least rally around snap OR flatpak, then we’d have more of a fighting chance.

Re: Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

#118
post #7

Again? I’ve been using Linux on my desktop since 2004 or so. And lack of games is always brought up as if gaming was one essential feature of a computer. That’s what consoles are for.

I've been using Linux on my desktop even longer, but I agree with at least the premise of the article (even though the arguments are poorly thought out and expressed most of the time).

No Linux-based OS has gained mainstream acceptance. You can try to blame that on marketing or corporations or whatever, but I don't buy that. I think open source software is the best way to make technically-superior software, but I think often it's a poor way to create the best user experiences, because the kinds of people who create open source software often don't care to focus on UX.

> That’s what consoles are for.

Millions (tens? hundreds? more?) of Windows gamers would disagree with you. You buy a console and do what you want, sure, go for it. But there is a market for Windows gaming, a very big one.

Re: Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

#119
post #93
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When you start installing software and drivers, the OS gets totalled I have been using multiple Linux distros for over 20 years (and supporting other people) and this has simply never happened to me. Not even since I started using a distro that is supposedly less stable (Manjaro). > Forcing a user to compile C code is a bad user experience That is why very few distros expect users to do it. Are you thinking of Gent…

> From the point of view of most users, Linux is very similar to iOS or Android - you install software from the "store". I believe the comment you're replying to is stating that Linux (and its app ecosystem) is much more fragmented than iOS and Android. Each distro has a "store" of apps that only reliably work on that distro.

Unless the "store" is GNOME Software, which as far as I can tell doesn't work reliably on any distro.

Re: Why Linux is not ready for the desktop, the final edition

#120
post #115
post #81

> Regressions are introduced all the time because Linux developers spend very little to no time checking that their code changes don't cause regressions or breakages outside of the problems they're trying to fix or features they're implementing. Wow. Such sweeping generalizations make me not want to pay attention to anything this article has to say. But let's entertain the possibility that parts of that statement are…

> It's practically impossible for "Linux developers"—whatever that means—to ensure that a change they make doesn't break something downstream. Unlike proprietary operating systems... That's exactly the point, though. Linux will "never be ready for the desktop" because of the problems that this causes. Developers of software for Linux, not to mention kernel developers themselves, do not have the kind of funding that M…

It is impossible for Microsoft too. To name one example:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2020/02/15/micro...

Also, Microsoft does not do internal testing of various hardware configurations anymore:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/20140806183208-12100070-why-d...

They rely on end users to find problems for them:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2018/12/12/micro...

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