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VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

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Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#111

Post by epolanski »

Earw0rm wrote: post #97
Lio wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t Musk an unelected part of the US government now? He’s also talking about interfering in my country by giving huge sums of money to a wacky Spode-a-like conman that’s already taken billions out of our economy. To my mind we should be skeptical of all foreign interference no matter where it comes from.

I was writing from a US-aligned perspective. If you view the US as a hostile power, then yes the same - to some degree - applies to Tesla. Although I think they're not as good at covering their tracks for something like that.

> If you view the US as a hostile power, then yes the same - to some degree - applies to Tesla.

Times change. Your allies of today are your foes in a decade. You don't know.

Still, there's billions and billions of spying devices and US-controlled electronics.

And I'm not making this up, we know for a fact NSA has put backdoors and hacks in both commercial routers and chips that are used everywhere in the world.

Yet you americans think it's fine if you do it, and it's also fine to speculate about other countries maybe doing it, and going into these crazy scenarios where Chinese EVs start ramming people.

Give me a break.

Such comments do nothing but remind me that US exceptionalism, the idea that the US can play by a different playbook is a huge danger and menace to world peace. It will keep pissing off allies and non-allies alike.

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#112

Post by gambiting »

f1shy wrote: post #80
gambiting wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>There are only 40% of the EU citizens that don't want the EU. 40% of EU citizens are not right in their heads then. That number should be a lot smaller.

That is a little harsh. Good that democracy is about respecting the opinions of other people.

No, democracy isn't about that. It's about respecting other people's choice - which I do. It's the old "I will defend your right to have an opinion, but I reserve the right to call this opinion stupid". I respect the Brexit vote - I still think anyone who voted for it is missing brain cells in critical parts of their brain - these two things aren't mutually exclusive.

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#113

Post by anal_reactor »

checkyoursudo wrote: post #26

I have a really hard time understanding why we as a society (or various societies) are okay these kinds of things. Sure, I understand that there is little I can do about it, but why are powerful people okay with their car company or phone company knowing everything about them? Are people in California and the EU at least covered by data privacy laws?

> I have a really hard time understanding why we as a society (or various societies) are okay these kinds of things.

Because using mass surveillance you can provide better service. That's a fact you can't argue with.

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#114

Post by gambiting »

bluGill wrote: post #81
gambiting wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...that is exactly what I said? Dealers will(and do!) just reject any warranty claim based on the fact that you haven't serviced the car with an official dealer. You can show them all the documents and laws and they will just ignore you. Taking them to court works but it just ends up costing you time and money.

Dealers do not reject claims. They make a large portion of their income from claims. The manufacture rejects claims. if you use the dealer for service they have records of that and so can sometimes prove that the relavent maitenance was done correctly but they want the money from warranty work either way and so they lose if the claim is rejected. they make money from regular service as well and want you for that. How…

Yes, but like I said in my other comment - the manufacturer will reject any claim for a car that doesn't have a full service history within their own dealer network. The manufacturer will allow the dealer to submit other proof that the car has been serviced properly, but that takes time and effort, which the dealers don't want to spare, so they decline your warranty claim by not putting it in front of the manufacturer(because that would mean more work for them).

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#115

Post by pluc »

croes wrote: post #74
pluc wrote: post #6

This is why you don't bring your car for service at dealers. On "dumb" cars, that's when the transfer happens and it can be location data and even car audio. That's also why you don't install these little trackers to find your car when it gets stolen, because when it isn't stolen, they make money selling your location data, and that's the real product. Weaponizing convenience, as usual.

New cars are all equipped with SIM cards.

Don't know if that's true for Canada. Finally an upside to prohibitive data rates!

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#116

Post by bsagdiyev »

magic_smoke_ee wrote: post #47
grecy wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Performance tunes are very often illegal in the US for messing with emissions stuff. The EPA have been cracking down HARD lately. I can see a future where auto manufacturers lobby to make “unlocking” features highly illegal due to the DMCA or some other.

I was just going to say this. It has to have a CARB sticker. No CARB sticker, no pass. Passing a smog test in most US states typically uses on-board telemetry combined with a rear-wheel dyno. Most smog shops won't touch vehicles that lack OBD2 but still require smog tests every 2 years. Also, I'm unsure if smog shops still use an external NOx/CO probe like ye olde days or rely entirely on the vehicle to be non-VW "sm…

That's a very CA viewpoint. I moved from CA to NC and as long as the onboard computer isn't throwing a code and your emissions stuff (appears to be) in place they don't care. I have two vehicles that are tuned and they pass emissions no problem. They can see this (different means per manufacturer, I think BMW throws an invalid checksum and Ford does it by key trigger count or something) but since the vehicles are still blowing clean it's fine.

We just had a few counties discontinue emissions checks and now only do safety checks up to 30 years past which they don't inspect at all.

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#117

Post by grecy »

bsagdiyev wrote: post #116
magic_smoke_ee wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was just going to say this. It has to have a CARB sticker. No CARB sticker, no pass. Passing a smog test in most US states typically uses on-board telemetry combined with a rear-wheel dyno. Most smog shops won't touch vehicles that lack OBD2 but still require smog tests every 2 years. Also, I'm unsure if smog shops still use an external NOx/CO probe like ye olde days or rely entirely on the vehicle to be non-VW "sm…

That's a very CA viewpoint. I moved from CA to NC and as long as the onboard computer isn't throwing a code and your emissions stuff (appears to be) in place they don't care. I have two vehicles that are tuned and they pass emissions no problem. They can see this (different means per manufacturer, I think BMW throws an invalid checksum and Ford does it by key trigger count or something) but since the vehicles are sti…

Keep in mind the EPA is cracking down HARD on businesses that sell any kind of "tuning" or "delete" device, handing out fines in the millions of dollars and shutting down businesses.

It's all well and good to say "you can get away with it", but the businesses selling these products can't.

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#118

Post by pas »

dirkt wrote: post #52
Etheryte wrote: post #8

Germany makes a big ruckus about their local industry struggling to compete with Chinese manufacturers, but meanwhile the Volkswagen Group stumbles from one scandal to the next. As far as I'm concerned, if that's the way you do business, go bankrupt. I know all big manufacturers have their warts and flaws, but VW continues to be the frontrunner year after year.

Don't forget that other manufacturers collect the same data, they just didn't have a collection of blunders that allowed access. No malicious intent this time, but it clearly highlights that companies need to learn to put policies in place to make double sure PII is actually protected to the degree the law already requires. We also need laws that force companies to make opting out of this kind of data collection much…

> ... need to learn to put policies in place to make double sure blablal is actually tralala.

no. they already have too many policies. and this and that. adding one more is how we got there. (of course they have policies for making sure PII is kept safe.)

no. this is a cultural issue.

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#119

Post by bluGill »

gambiting wrote: post #114
bluGill wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dealers do not reject claims. They make a large portion of their income from claims. The manufacture rejects claims. if you use the dealer for service they have records of that and so can sometimes prove that the relavent maitenance was done correctly but they want the money from warranty work either way and so they lose if the claim is rejected. they make money from regular service as well and want you for that. How…

Yes, but like I said in my other comment - the manufacturer will reject any claim for a car that doesn't have a full service history within their own dealer network. The manufacturer will allow the dealer to submit other proof that the car has been serviced properly, but that takes time and effort, which the dealers don't want to spare, so they decline your warranty claim by not putting it in front of the manufacture…

Manufactures are not that bad. They know the law and so they won't ask for maintenance records unless that could be relevant. Many claims are rejected though because the wrong chemical (oil, coolant...) will cause failures which they know the symptoms - that is why they require specific records - they know that issues of a specific nature are often caused by not following maintenance schedules.

Of course it is in the manufactures interest to reject claims where they can. However it is also in their interest to pay out for claims since ease of handling issues is what builds loyalty.

Re: VW Group Collects Vehicle Movement Data

#120

Post by __m »

28304283409234 wrote: post #76
TacticalCoder wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's all part of a plan. The EU is very busy setting up the equivalent of the chinese "social credit". It started with "ESG" rating by banks (where you're already attributed an ESG rating depending on which companies you invest your money in) and now it's likely they'll be moving forward with computing your yearly carbon emission to then decide if you can go on vacation or not and how far. Don't underestimate the glo…

EU has prevented many dystopia from even forming. The main reason we have seen so little war in our continent is the EU. Edit: "computing your yearly carbon emission to then decide if you can go on vacation or not and how far." I am one hundred percent behind that idea. Make this law. Please. People need boundaries. Freedom is not the absence of boundaries.

You could probably do that in a country like north Korea but not in a free country
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