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A Minecraft server written in COBOL

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Re: A Minecraft server written in COBOL

#111

Post by zozbot234 »

troad wrote: post #109
zozbot234 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Rust's core premise is trading off dev speed and flexibility for memory safety Rust's main competitor in gamedev is C++, which is not especially known for its "dev speed and flexibility". There are ways to do fast, iterative development in Rust, they just involve quite a bit of boilerplate (to mark all the places where you're giving up some amount of low-level performance in the name of flexibility). If anything, t…

I respectfully disagree, emphasis on respectfully. C++ absolutely does have Rust beat on dev speed on flexibility. I would much rather prototype a quick and dirty gameplay slice in C++ over Rust, and I think so would most people. That flexibility comes at a cost, of course. C++ is three languages in a trenchcoat, waiting for you to turn away so it can bash you over the head and mug you. There are ways to do anything…

> Rust's community is not particularly small, all things considered

It absolutely is. Your linked thread has people describing the 3D- or 2D-rendering stacks available in Rust as half-baked in some way or other, with other folks saying that it's hard or infeasible to get Rust code on consoles where the manufacturer forces you to use their dev SDK. This is what a smaller community looks like in practical terms.

Re: A Minecraft server written in COBOL

#112

Post by openplatypus »

Koshkin wrote: post #26
owenthejumper wrote: post #22

Roast me but the code is very readable. Compare with some modern languages where you have to stare at it for minutes to understand what's going on.

That’s why I like Ada (and VHDL). Somewhat verbose, perhaps, but much more readable than more “modern” languages.

VHDL has special place in my heart coming from FPGA world. Oddly enough, I never thought of Ada and VHDL as similar, mhhmmm.

Re: A Minecraft server written in COBOL

#113

Post by shakna »

PaulHoule wrote: post #86
pjmlp wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would assess C++ has already outpaced PL/I complexity, and I do enjoy using C++.

You can get a C++ compiler which is (more or less) correct, I'm not sure that was ever quite true of PL/I.

IBM are still building and maintaining their PL/I compiler for z/OS, today. Though it is only compliant with specs up to 1979. The '87 ISO is only partially adopted.

Re: A Minecraft server written in COBOL

#114

Post by Y_Y »

Bjartr wrote: post #77
bitfilped wrote: post #13

Docker isn't a platform portable experience fwiw

What platform are you thinking you'd want to use this on that docker doesn't support

I frequently am bothered that I can't run docker on mainline Android.

(Without rooting, qemu, or other malarkey)

Re: A Minecraft server written in COBOL

#115

Post by superdisk »

shiroiushi wrote: post #101
userbinator wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one seems to have written a Minecraft server in FORTRAN yet... but I think your comment just gave some people here ideas.

Instead of FORTRAN, someone should try writing a Minecraft server in something like ALGOL or FORTH.

Algol 68 actually isn't too bad of a language to work with, and there's a modern interpreter easily available. Unfortunately it lacks all support for reading and manipulating binary data so I think a Minecraft server would be nearly impossible.

Re: A Minecraft server written in COBOL

#117

Post by kachapopopow »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #87
kachapopopow wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People that get things done usually don't care about code quality. I noticed myself in a place where I just never finished anything anymore by trying to write something to last. Over the years I've found a good balance, but I've found that iterating over garbage will eventually turn into something good and I've been doing so since.

My previous employer certainly got things done. They got so many things done, that I found it impossible to add features to their codebase.

I'd say it's a skill issue, but that's only because I've worked on decompiled applications and made it work. I've worked with assembly and made it work. I hook google chrome with pdb resolving and made it work.

It took me 10 years to get to this point, it is not a reasonable expectation to have of others.

Re: A Minecraft server written in COBOL

#118

Post by ddingus »

morkalork wrote: post #68
ddingus wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what you have identified is a truism. Simple languages present a very lean cognitive load. They also do not offer a bazillion choices, and that is perhaps their greatest appeal! When the language is simple, a programmer can apply more brain power to actualize the idea.

You can't agonize on the best way to shave a yak if there's only one way to do it.

Bada boom! Correctamundo!

Re: A Minecraft server written in COBOL

#119

Post by voxl »

martin-t wrote: post #102
voxl wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You can't mix and match, you're still tied to bevy_ecs if you use any level of abstraction above it. I also didn't say it was a bad things. I just pointed out that everyone's goto example of bevy's commercial success (not even quality, just success) doesn't in fact use large chunks of bevy. I am sure bevy's ECS is the best in the rust ecosystem. ECS doesn't meet the requirements of my games so i rejected it but if it…

Your entire argument boils down to your personal bias against ECS, and the one game that we tout for Bevy success uses: drum roll please. Bevy's ECS. Let's not pretend you think this is an informed decision, you think ECS is objectively worse. You would never suggest someone choose Bevy, and on reddit you actively talk about how ECS is bad. You're biased against it, plain and simple.

Re: A Minecraft server written in COBOL

#120

Post by martin-t »

voxl wrote: post #119
martin-t wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't mix and match, you're still tied to bevy_ecs if you use any level of abstraction above it. I also didn't say it was a bad things. I just pointed out that everyone's goto example of bevy's commercial success (not even quality, just success) doesn't in fact use large chunks of bevy. I am sure bevy's ECS is the best in the rust ecosystem. ECS doesn't meet the requirements of my games so i rejected it but if it…

Your entire argument boils down to your personal bias against ECS, and the one game that we tout for Bevy success uses: drum roll please. Bevy's ECS. Let's not pretend you think this is an informed decision, you think ECS is objectively worse. You would never suggest someone choose Bevy, and on reddit you actively talk about how ECS is bad. You're biased against it, plain and simple.

On reddit i clearly say that ECS has its uses, such as large teams or games which need to add and remove components often. Most games people write in rust don't fall into those categories. Most people in rust have never heard of generational arenas so i tell them about alternatives.

OTOH you are biased. I didn't even mention bevy, you assumed i was talking about it - what does that say about its qualities? I also didn't mention ECS, I just said some architectures are way more verbose and you brought up ECS. Again, what does it say about its qualities?

You only focus on me, not on what I say.

You started by insulting me "bitch and moan", "broken opinion", "Just admit it, you are a reactionary" and you're rightfully getting flagged.

---

Stop treating game engines like football clubs, stop being emotional about it, it's just a tool, use tools that work for you but don't force them on others and don't pretend they're the only tools available.

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