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Decline in teen drug use continues, surprising experts

arstechnica.com

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Re: Decline in teen drug use continues, surprising experts

#111

Post by s1artibartfast »

BriggyDwiggs42 wrote: post #100
_Algernon_ wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Popularity doesn't necessarily imply a need.

If you want to get technical, doesn’t it? When some particular variety of thing is popular across all human cultures, doesn’t this point to it addressing some deep desire we might put on mazlow’s? What distinguishes a deep, innate human desire from a need?

One way to distinguish them is the retrospective analysis of the outcome. What happens when someone obtains or goes without each category?

To go deeper, I think one needs to more fully defined "need”. Need for what? Are we talking about needs.. to sustain biological life? Are we talking about needs... To sustain happy and productive lives?

If we take the second definition, there is a pretty clear difference between a desire and a need. Satisfaction of a desire does not necessarily advance that goal, and can very well be counter to it.

Re: Decline in teen drug use continues, surprising experts

#112

Post by Izkata »

_yb2s wrote: post #43
Izkata wrote: post #3

> But, according to data released Tuesday, the number of eighth, 10th, and 12th graders who collectively abstained from the use of alcohol, marijuana, or nicotine hit a new high this year. Use of illicit drugs also fell on the whole and use of non-heroin narcotics (Vicodin, OxyContin, Percocet) hit an all-time low. From an unexpected conversation with some younger people not long ago (though not this young), they may…

Anyone that has experienced LSD would know that what you are saying is impossible and makes zero sense. Other than both being chemicals, the effects are so radically different that they have no interchangeable purpose. Specifically LSD cannot be used to escape trauma or negative emotions, if anything it does the opposite and makes you confront them head on, often terrifyingly so, and as such LSD has something like ne…

The study makes no distinction between that and recreational use. "Getting drunk with friends" counted, for example.

Besides if anything I'd say current generations have less trauma to avoid so they're more likely to use it than past generations.

Re: Decline in teen drug use continues, surprising experts

#113

Post by mmooss »

_qbxi wrote: post #53
oortoo wrote: post #18

Another aspect here I think is the generalized fear and anxiety present in young people. Having spoken to some family members in the 15-18 age bracket, the message they seem to be receiving is that they are without a future... they won't be buying homes, they won't be getting high paying jobs, and that the system is not going to work in their favor. I think people of this age are uniquely feeling mortal and vulnerabl…

First-time home owners have increased in age[0], the middle class is shrinking[1], education costs have vastly outpaced inflation[2] as have medical costs[3]. Perhaps the generalized fear is not so much about "coddling", but concrete realities. I do not envy them. [0] https://www.axios.com/2023/11/20/american-housing-market-old... [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/04/20/how-the-a... [2] https://www.usn…

Also the insane political risks and social instability, climate change, heightened risks of war and econmomic calamity, housing cost increase.

Re: Decline in teen drug use continues, surprising experts

#114

Post by mmooss »

ikmckenz wrote: post #13

Teens aren't doing drugs, smoking, drinking, or having sex. And the suicide rate has never been higher.

> Teens aren't ... having sex.

Nor are people in their 20s (that is, both groups are having much less sex). That is the most worrying thing to me. People are not even engaging in the most fundamental, unavoidable, pleasurable human drive.

They seem very much like traumatized people, on a massive scale, just trying to survive.

Re: Decline in teen drug use continues, surprising experts

#115

Post by Izkata »

achairapart wrote: post #65
vouaobrasil wrote: post #6

I wonder if the new drug of choice is actually technology. In some ways I think that the addiction to technology has some similar mellowing effects as drugs. Some research indicates that smartphone addiction is also related to low self-esteem and avoidant attachment [1] and that smartphones can become an object of attachment [2]. The replacement of drugs by technology is not surprising as it significantly strengthens…

Suddenly I remember this movie from the 90s where people drugged themself with some kind of minidisc. “Strange Days”, maybe? Anyhow, I always found the plot weird, but maybe they actually were onto something…

Offhand the only drug-like thing I remember from that series is the nutrition bars that had 0 calories that most of the school got addicted to. Or maybe the cheerleader that got bee pheromones and started controlling the rest of the students.

Aside - I just learned a month ago that there's an official followup miniseries that brought back several of the original actors, titled "Echoes", with hopefully more coming since it's called Season 1. Came out over 2022-2023: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLHGrvCp5nsDJ1qSoKZEmm... (the trailers are at the bottom of the playlist)

Re: Decline in teen drug use continues, surprising experts

#117

Post by [deleted] »

Izkata wrote: post #112
_yb2s wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone that has experienced LSD would know that what you are saying is impossible and makes zero sense. Other than both being chemicals, the effects are so radically different that they have no interchangeable purpose. Specifically LSD cannot be used to escape trauma or negative emotions, if anything it does the opposite and makes you confront them head on, often terrifyingly so, and as such LSD has something like ne…

The study makes no distinction between that and recreational use. "Getting drunk with friends" counted, for example. Besides if anything I'd say current generations have less trauma to avoid so they're more likely to use it than past generations.

[deleted]

Re: Decline in teen drug use continues, surprising experts

#118

Post by NBJack »

vouaobrasil wrote: post #95
cassianoleal wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode The Game [0]. Every time I watch that I get this eerie sensation that we're essentially giving our free will up to the masters of the games and social platforms we're addicted to. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_%28Star_Trek:_The_Nex...

Darn, I forgot that episode. That's a very eerie parallel to some of what we have today.

"If you just let the game happen, it almost plays itself." The quote from the episode certainly makes me think about the "idle games" genre that has emerged in that last several years.

Re: Decline in teen drug use continues, surprising experts

#119

Post by superkuh »

some_furry wrote: post #25
vouaobrasil wrote: post #6

I wonder if the new drug of choice is actually technology. In some ways I think that the addiction to technology has some similar mellowing effects as drugs. Some research indicates that smartphone addiction is also related to low self-esteem and avoidant attachment [1] and that smartphones can become an object of attachment [2]. The replacement of drugs by technology is not surprising as it significantly strengthens…

Does compulsive technology use trigger the same neural pathways as addictive substances? Because "addiction" is a very loaded term (with a specific clinical definition when it's not being used colloquially), and the sources you cited used "attachment" instead.

I couldn't agree more. Using the term addiction in contexts where it is not medically valid is very dangerous (like yelling "fire" in a theater) and leads to the use of violent force against those one falsely claims are "addicted".

Audio-visual stimuli from screens and speakers has never been shown to be able to have the same effects as a dopaminergic drug which is to say, completely turning up incentive salience regardless of reward or lack of it. That is why drugs are dangerous.

Technology can only be habit forming (in some contexts, maybe) if it continues to be rewarding in some way. Psychological dependence, maybe, but never addiction, and not even physiological dependence. Addictive drugs do not have to be rewarding or pleasurable. They just hijack wanting.

They are not the same and definitely should not be legislated the same. Enjoying something that is actually fun is not the same as wanting something because it chemically turned on wanting.

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