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Swedish minister eyes energy crisis steps, blames German nuclear phase-out

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Re: Swedish minister eyes energy crisis steps, blames German nuclear phase-out

#111

Post by svartor »

locallost wrote: post #47

In 2022 Germany's nuclear plants produced 32.8 TWh of electricity, which was 6.4% of the load in that country [1]. Compared to 2022, the spot market prices in Germany are lower in both 2023 (significantly) and 2024. [2] Seems a bit odd that the nuclear exit in Germany did not create large issues, but is wrecking havoc on Sweden. [1] https://energy-charts.info/charts/energy/chart.htm?l=en&c=DE... [2] https://energy-ch…

The debate in Sweden is about the extreme spikes in price that you get nowadays and you see those extreme spikes in price in Germany as well if you look day by day instead of month by month.

https://energy-charts.info/charts/price_average/chart.htm?l=...

Re: Swedish minister eyes energy crisis steps, blames German nuclear phase-out

#112

Post by svartor »

willvarfar wrote: post #11

This blame game is all about supporting current political narratives about nuclear power etc. It's not really about the energy crisis. Sweden's energy mess is all about 'free markets'. Back in the old days the state-run energy companies in Sweden produced an overabundance of electricity, mostly from hydro, making Sweden one of the cheapest electricity countries in the world. It was really common to replace wood burne…

Denmark didn't complain about cheap electricity, they complained that Sweden limited electricity export at times when the demand outstripped supply domestically. By creating 'energy zones', Sweden was able to decrease demand for electricity in parts of Sweden instead of cutting exports.

The national electricity transmission network in Sweden is still a public utility so the cause for the imbalances in the Swedish electrical grid is not due to privatizations but rather political decisions such as not investing sufficiently in transmission capacity, shutting down nuclear power plants and making it difficult to get approval for wind energy etc.

Re: Swedish minister eyes energy crisis steps, blames German nuclear phase-out

#113

Post by dang »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #26
alecco wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the Swedish government is taking blame for local shutdowns. The previous day her boss (PM) said so. The 4th paragraph reads: "“I realise that nobody is happy when I say that ‘if we hadn't shut down half of nuclear power, we wouldn't have these problems’. But it's true and it needs to be said.”, Kristersson said, referring to the previous Social Democrat-Greens coalition closing several nuclear reactors between 20…

[flagged]

I realize the parent comment had elements of flamebait in it, but this is the point at which the thread crossed into outright flamewar and ended in a downward spiral. That's not ok, and we've had to warn you about this before.

Would you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and use HN in the intended spirit from now on? We'd appreciate it. Also, please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42433724 downthread.

Re: Swedish minister eyes energy crisis steps, blames German nuclear phase-out

#114

Post by dang »

sigh_again wrote: post #104
ivan_gammel wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand that somehow Greens made you feel so angry that you cannot stand any argument with other opinion than yours, but this is HN, not therapy, we are not here to release your steam. Try to make it less emotional next time. I‘m not acting in bad faith, I just don’t see how is your argumentation relevant to my original comment above. What I would expect to agree with you is the causal link making greens primari…

[flagged]

You can't do this here, regardless of how wrong someone is or you feel they are. I've banned the account. Please don't create accounts to break HN's rules with.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Swedish minister eyes energy crisis steps, blames German nuclear phase-out

#115

Post by dang »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #102
sigh_again wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> does it make sense to commit to fossil fuel for another 50-70 years again? I now see that you have been arguing in bad faith since the beginning and should not have wasted time, down to repeating exact arguments from the greens that have, so far, proved to be wronged and dragged Germany into one of the worst emitters of Europe. Good luck with your dreams, knowing you're dragging all of us down with you.

I understand that somehow Greens made you feel so angry that you cannot stand any argument with other opinion than yours, but this is HN, not therapy, we are not here to release your steam. Try to make it less emotional next time. I‘m not acting in bad faith, I just don’t see how is your argumentation relevant to my original comment above. What I would expect to agree with you is the causal link making greens primari…

You broke the site guidelines badly in this flamewar. I'm not going to ban your account right now the way I did the other one, which broke them quite a bit worse and has more of a history of doing so. But if you keep doing this, we're going to end up having to ban you, especially since this isn't the first time.

Please avoid tit-for-tat spats in the future, no matter how wrong someone is or you feel they are, and please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and post respectfully and thoughtfully in the future. If you had edited out the swipes from your comments, as the rules request, they would have been fine.

Re: Swedish minister eyes energy crisis steps, blames German nuclear phase-out

#116

Post by Jensson »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #33
alecco wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The green coalition governments across the EU are leaving a huge mess behind. De-industrialization at a pace never seen before at peace times. China is happy to fill in the void.

How is China filling a void in local energy production? Exporting energy over those distances isn't viable. I mean granted, China's push to expand their solar panel production has led to affordable solar panels for a lot of home owners and communities, massively boosting solar / renewable energy adoption to the point that local energy grids are at capacity. Likewise, their push to expand production of batteries and c…

You can export electricity in the form of product that needed electricity to make, like a bike.

Re: Swedish minister eyes energy crisis steps, blames German nuclear phase-out

#117

Post by ivan_gammel »

dang wrote: post #115
ivan_gammel wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand that somehow Greens made you feel so angry that you cannot stand any argument with other opinion than yours, but this is HN, not therapy, we are not here to release your steam. Try to make it less emotional next time. I‘m not acting in bad faith, I just don’t see how is your argumentation relevant to my original comment above. What I would expect to agree with you is the causal link making greens primari…

You broke the site guidelines badly in this flamewar. I'm not going to ban your account right now the way I did the other one, which broke them quite a bit worse and has more of a history of doing so. But if you keep doing this, we're going to end up having to ban you, especially since this isn't the first time. Please avoid tit-for-tat spats in the future, no matter how wrong someone is or you feel they are, and ple…

Thank you for letting me know! I apologize for the tone and inconvenience caused and will try to make the necessary edits/avoid biting the bait. It was definitely not my intention to start the flamewar.

Re: Swedish minister eyes energy crisis steps, blames German nuclear phase-out

#118

Post by guerrilla »

mantas wrote: post #107
guerrilla wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to be rude but why do you want to have opinions on this without knowing the history very well?

I'm always up to learn something new that may enrich my opinions.

That's excellent news.

Re: Swedish minister eyes energy crisis steps, blames German nuclear phase-out

#119

Post by sigh_again »

dang wrote: post #114
sigh_again wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You can't do this here, regardless of how wrong someone is or you feel they are. I've banned the account. Please don't create accounts to break HN's rules with. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

[dead]

Re: Swedish minister eyes energy crisis steps, blames German nuclear phase-out

#120

Post by Xelbair »

tcfhgj wrote: post #109
Xelbair wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

never mentioned CO2 for renewables - i mentioned storing energy from them. that's the problem.

why?

because storing it in any way is extremely inefficient - the best solution we have is pumped-storage hydroelectricity with at most 70-80% efficiency.

Renewables aren't available 24/7, as they work in cycles in most cases(sunlight, tides, waves, wind - geothermal and hydroelectric is an exception, but latter also has problems with damages to ecosystem, and handling sediment travel along the rivers) - this is the most basic problem with them. Grid demands electricity in a way that does not align with the renevable's production, so you need buffers.

So you need to build both energy storage, and energy generation - both are source of pollutants, and eRoI over the whole lifecycle isn't actually that impressive. It is a way to go though, but we are far off from fully transitioning to it.

if you genuinely have to ask that question, you need to read more about energy before you start discussing it. and especially about modern nuclear reactor designs, and how catastrophe in Chernobyl happened(forced orders from above, basically a human failure)

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