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Beekeepers halt honey awards over fraud in global supply chain

theguardian.com

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Re: Beekeepers halt honey awards over fraud in global supply chain

#111

Post by reaperducer »

Etheryte wrote: post #10

Here's a very straightforward guide to buying honey. If you see honey at a supermarket, no you don't, that's sugar syrup. If you see honey online, no you don't, that's sugar syrup. If you find an old dude with a small stand and a bunch of (most likely unlabelled) jars who only accepts cash, that's where you get real honey.

If you see honey at a supermarket, no you don't, that's sugar syrup.

I get my honey from a local beekeeper who delivers to my door. He welcomes people to tour his farm to see how it's produced.

He also sells his honey in the local chain supermarkets. Your broad generalization is false.

Re: Beekeepers halt honey awards over fraud in global supply chain

#112

Post by colechristensen »

jart wrote: post #93
_3u10 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s because honey is sugar syrup with a liberal sprinkling of marketing. The sugar syrup they are blending it with doesn’t have the right marketing and is therefore not honey.

No, it's not. Honey is defined by the USDA as being flower nectar that's been processed by bees[1]. Artificial honey can not be called honey[2]. If they're mixing it with high fructose corn syrup, then there should be a way to scientifically determine that. [1] https://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/Extracted... [2] https://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/Extracted...

A 90s percent of honey is fructose, glucose, and water. A very high 90s percent of corn syrup is fructose, glucose, and water. Getting the ratios the same is trivial. There is nothing magical about fructose or glucose from different sources, they’re exactly the same simple molecule.

If you had very clean corn syrup, you could undetectably dilute honey and it would be quite the same. Lab tests being what they are these days, someone could probably make a part per billion analysis that would be very hard to evade, but the difference is emotional not practical.

People have wrong ideas that honey is so much healthier than corn syrup when it is indeed very similar. Not that i support selling corn syrup as honey, but it wouldn’t make any actual difference other than diluted flavor.

Re: Beekeepers halt honey awards over fraud in global supply chain

#113

Post by spookie »

Snacklive wrote: post #71
ponector wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bit to get honey would mean to rob your hive friend.

Na dude, they are chill. They produce more under your friendship so you can keep a little. If they think the relationship is going toxic they just leave. It's awesome

Yeah, it's basically this. Most wouldn't survive winter.

Re: Beekeepers halt honey awards over fraud in global supply chain

#114

Post by reaperducer »

Aurornis wrote: post #64
Michelangelo11 wrote: post #5

Feels like wherever you turn, you see a high-trust society disintegrating into a low-trust one.

Actually I think the opposite is true in many cases. Food quality and safety standards are higher than ever. This stuff sticks out because it’s getting caught and called out. There was a time when information spread slowly, tracking supply chains was basically impossible, and many businesses would do shady things because they knew they were unlikely to get caught. Now we can sample things like honey with lab equipmen…

Actually I think the opposite is true in many cases. Food quality and safety standards are higher than ever.

You are correct. At least in the United States.

There was a university agronomist on the radio a couple of weeks ago talking about how people get all worked up about food recalls. They act like there are more of them than ever before.

She said the amazing thing is that there aren't more recalls, since we produce and consume so much food than ever with so much involved in the process.

She says the system isn't perfect (no system ever is), but it's far better than what we've had in the past and the results are remarkable.

Re: Beekeepers halt honey awards over fraud in global supply chain

#115

Post by jfengel »

colechristensen wrote: post #112
jart wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's not. Honey is defined by the USDA as being flower nectar that's been processed by bees[1]. Artificial honey can not be called honey[2]. If they're mixing it with high fructose corn syrup, then there should be a way to scientifically determine that. [1] https://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/Extracted... [2] https://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/Extracted...

A 90s percent of honey is fructose, glucose, and water. A very high 90s percent of corn syrup is fructose, glucose, and water. Getting the ratios the same is trivial. There is nothing magical about fructose or glucose from different sources, they’re exactly the same simple molecule. If you had very clean corn syrup, you could undetectably dilute honey and it would be quite the same. Lab tests being what they are thes…

The remaining 10 percent is very significant to flavor. You can definitely detect it with your tongue and nose.

But as you say it is utterly irrelevant to nutrition or health. Even the antibacterial elements are real but negligible.

Re: Beekeepers halt honey awards over fraud in global supply chain

#116

Post by nextaccountic »

jart wrote: post #79
Etheryte wrote: post #10

Here's a very straightforward guide to buying honey. If you see honey at a supermarket, no you don't, that's sugar syrup. If you see honey online, no you don't, that's sugar syrup. If you find an old dude with a small stand and a bunch of (most likely unlabelled) jars who only accepts cash, that's where you get real honey.

But all the honey labels say the only ingredient is honey. We've always been able to assume that with things like jams, or any other food, when manufacturers adulterate it with things like corn syrup, or even mild poisons, they proudly say so on the label. To not do so is fraud. How can people just claim that an entire industry is committing fraud??? Even this article doesn't mention anything about proof, just suspic…

Note this also happens with olive oil

https://www.europol.europa.eu/media-press/newsroom/news/11-o...

https://www.oliveoiltimes.com/business/europe/top-italian-po...

Re: Beekeepers halt honey awards over fraud in global supply chain

#117

Post by bagels »

araneae wrote: post #95
yumraj wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now old dudes will buy supermarket honey and unlabeled jars. Unverifiable provenance in both cases..

If you /really/ want to be sure, buy comb honey. Impossible to fake.

Can't fake honeycomb be made and placed in to jars of fake honey?

Re: Beekeepers halt honey awards over fraud in global supply chain

#118

Post by zug_zug »

foolfoolz wrote: post #61
zug_zug wrote: post #38

I think the FDA should build towards mass food analysis. To sell something en masse you should have to put down a deposit, and the FDA should do an annual analysis of your food (via mass spectometry) from samples from the food store. They should mix dozens of samples from different states to get good coverage. Should you fail (illegal pesticides, ingredients differ than label, too much lead, whatever) then you lose y…

we already have this in the FDA. it’s just isolated to nutrient labels for most foods. the deposit is your business. failing a random annual FDA inspection is already extremely financially impactful what you’re looking for is deeper analysis than nutrition labels. this is actually something small local brands start with. they pay for private “certifications” like organic, non gmo, etc.

If we had what I described then we wouldn't have fake honey on shelves.

Re: Beekeepers halt honey awards over fraud in global supply chain

#119

Post by vinnymac »

tharkun__ wrote: post #85
School-Cotton wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know this? Is there actual reporting on what percentage of honey in supermarkets is adulterated, rather than just anecdotal reports that at least some is?

And he is definitely globally wrong anyway. Our local supermarket sells honey from a local beekeeper that we've also bought honey from directly before. Only that one local supermarket has their honey and it's closer to us than driving to the beekeeper. And yes it has a nice looking but plain label on the jar. He is probably mostly right about large quantity, imported honey tho.

I think as a guide for buying honey his advice is valuable, although a bit dramatic, and it won’t apply to every country or region.

As someone who is a beekeeper and owns a farm, you can be much more certain what you’re getting is honey where I am from when it’s being purchased from the back of a van from some random person with some glass jars, than you can at any supermarket. Hi it’s me I am the random person with the glass jars :)

Re: Beekeepers halt honey awards over fraud in global supply chain

#120

Post by [deleted] »

colechristensen wrote: post #112
jart wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's not. Honey is defined by the USDA as being flower nectar that's been processed by bees[1]. Artificial honey can not be called honey[2]. If they're mixing it with high fructose corn syrup, then there should be a way to scientifically determine that. [1] https://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/Extracted... [2] https://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/Extracted...

A 90s percent of honey is fructose, glucose, and water. A very high 90s percent of corn syrup is fructose, glucose, and water. Getting the ratios the same is trivial. There is nothing magical about fructose or glucose from different sources, they’re exactly the same simple molecule. If you had very clean corn syrup, you could undetectably dilute honey and it would be quite the same. Lab tests being what they are thes…

[deleted]
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