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Tailwind CSS v4.0 Beta 1

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Re: Tailwind CSS v4.0 Beta 1

#111

Post by WuxiFingerHold »

kookamamie wrote: post #46

Read some of the Getting Started documentation, for fun. First step: > Installing with Vite What the hell is Vite? Oh, it seems to be something you need to install via npm. I cannot help but to ask - why do we require npm, or Vite, for something that looks like it should "help" with CSS? Why is the webdev such a shitshow, that seems to get ever deeper into its own weird rabbit hole?

Only parts of modern web dev are unnecessarily complex. What you can do with frameworks like SvelteKit or Nuxt, SolidStart, Remix, Next, ... is amazing. For simpler use-cases you sure can and should use vanilla HTML, CSS and some JS maybe some HTMX to level the interactivity ceiling, but for highly interactive apps with flexible rendering you need one of the modern frameworks. I assume you lack experience in front end, so believe me, getting started with a simple React SPA pre CreateReactApp (6-8 years ago?) was a horror trip. Now, starting, working on and deploying an app with the modern frameworks, e.g. SvelteKit doesn't get any easier in any tech. As a long term full stack dev my assessment is that web dev is in an exciting phase. A lot of innovation (and improvements) has been made in the recent years. Tooling has greatly improved mainly thanks to Vite, reactivity has become simpler, DX is a prio 1 concern thanks to Svelte. While not being fully convinced of general usefulness of universal rendering, I admire the innovation there.

Re: Tailwind CSS v4.0 Beta 1

#112

Post by teaearlgraycold »

foretop_yardarm wrote: post #57
conradludgate wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I prefer scoped css, eg svelte or react with CSS modules. This allows one to closely pair the styles with the component, but still separate out the styling from the html (I cannot stand tailwind/inline syles)

My favourite way too and fwiw not mutually exclusive with Tailwind (in case anyone was wondering).

Sometimes it’s necessary when using tailwind (I often use traditional CSS for animations). What’s the hip way to have CSS specific to a component? I remember StyledComponents from years ago. I wasn’t as much into front end then.

Re: Tailwind CSS v4.0 Beta 1

#113

Post by phist_mcgee »

quantadev wrote: post #110
phist_mcgee wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This site leans heavily backend it seems. There's a strain of patent smugness that comes with a lot of comments about frontend on this site and it's quite disheartening to see it. You rarely see frontend devs disparaging backend devs for their tech choices.

I think back-end development is a much more "comfortable" lifestyle (I'm full stack myself), even if lots of it is technically more difficult coding than front end (i.e. multiple threads, databases, load-balancing, etc), because there's a new front end technology that comes out every couple of years, making many of the front end tech stacks become obsolete rather fast and they're super fragmented in terms of large nu…

I get where you’re coming from, but I think it oversimplifies the challenges front-end developers face, and it feels a bit dismissive of their expertise. Front-end development isn’t just about chasing frameworks—it’s about crafting intuitive, performant, and accessible user experiences in a landscape that’s constantly evolving to meet user needs.

Backend stability has its advantages, but the rapid evolution on the front end reflects a response to real-world challenges—like improving developer ergonomics, addressing accessibility, or enhancing performance. Front-end devs often have to bridge the gap between design, user needs, and tech constraints in ways backend systems rarely have

In the end, the fragmentation you see in front-end frameworks is a strength. It’s not “easier” or “harder”—just different kinds of challenges. Both disciplines are vital, and dismissing one does a disservice to the teams and individuals who keep these systems working in harmony.

Re: Tailwind CSS v4.0 Beta 1

#114

Post by floydnoel »

EasyMark wrote: post #108
agos wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they serve different purposes. CSS modules is a (great) mechanism for providing isolation, very useful in the context of today's component-oriented front end development. Tailwind provides some (quite good) building blocks for a design system, such as a palette, a sizing scale, values for shadows and rounded corners... and a vast set of classes to apply them. The set of classes covers basically every CSS feature, mak…

Maybe I should revisit this stuff. I’ve been fighting anything other than my own custom CSS classes for a while. It’s beginning to look at bit dated and I have no interest in rewriting them for the few sites that I support (family members and a couple of charities). I am no web guru and much prefer my hobby/day job of embedded stuff that you’ll never see on a GUI. I keep hearing great stuff about tailwind though.

i was all-in on simple hand-rolled CSS for the longest time but finally gave Tailwind a try because of a work project. it was a pleasure to use once i did.

i like to use it with DaisyUI also. the part i like is that all the classes i need are already written so its just putting pieces together.

Re: Tailwind CSS v4.0 Beta 1

#115

Post by quantadev »

phist_mcgee wrote: post #113
quantadev wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think back-end development is a much more "comfortable" lifestyle (I'm full stack myself), even if lots of it is technically more difficult coding than front end (i.e. multiple threads, databases, load-balancing, etc), because there's a new front end technology that comes out every couple of years, making many of the front end tech stacks become obsolete rather fast and they're super fragmented in terms of large nu…

I get where you’re coming from, but I think it oversimplifies the challenges front-end developers face, and it feels a bit dismissive of their expertise. Front-end development isn’t just about chasing frameworks—it’s about crafting intuitive, performant, and accessible user experiences in a landscape that’s constantly evolving to meet user needs. Backend stability has its advantages, but the rapid evolution on the fr…

It's not "dismissive" or a "disservice" to say which things I found harder in my 35yrs experience.

I also say C++ is "harder" than Java, and that's not "dismissive" of Java devs. lol. I AM a Java dev. I did C++ for 10 years followed by Java for 25 yrs after that, so I feel justified to have opinions. I could also say Assembly Language was hardest of all but I won't because it might be "dismissive" of any easily-offended C++ devs. :)

Re: Tailwind CSS v4.0 Beta 1

#116

Post by yieldcrv »

quantadev wrote: post #107
agos wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no, it's not a good rant. this is the billionth "web dev is too complicated!" rant that is present under every. single. thread. about any technology vaguely related to front end development.

I just started HN a few months ago, so I haven't been around long enough to realize there's certain topics the HN aficionados have grown bored with. My apologies for the disruption.

lol dont worry about that, I’m a regular here and I dont see that

Its just my lived experience of using node.js build systems

Re: Tailwind CSS v4.0 Beta 1

#117

Post by isleyaardvark »

simonsarris wrote: post #101
kookamamie wrote: post #46

Read some of the Getting Started documentation, for fun. First step: > Installing with Vite What the hell is Vite? Oh, it seems to be something you need to install via npm. I cannot help but to ask - why do we require npm, or Vite, for something that looks like it should "help" with CSS? Why is the webdev such a shitshow, that seems to get ever deeper into its own weird rabbit hole?

To answer your question sincerely, Tailwind is a series of utility classes that make it easy to author CSS within HTML (pages or components). Back in the day we had many libraries to do this, the most popular was called Bootstrap. It looks like this: https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/npm/bootstrap@5.3.3/dist/css/bootst... You'll notice that Bootstrap CSS includes every single utility class within Bootstrap. This is fine , but…

> You'll notice that Bootstrap CSS includes every single utility class within Bootstrap. This is fine, but it could be a lot smaller

For perspective, a build process that removes unused tailwind classes can result in .css files of around 10kb. But a .css file with entire tailwind framework is about 2.5MiB.

Re: Tailwind CSS v4.0 Beta 1

#118

Post by quantadev »

yieldcrv wrote: post #116
quantadev wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just started HN a few months ago, so I haven't been around long enough to realize there's certain topics the HN aficionados have grown bored with. My apologies for the disruption.

lol dont worry about that, I’m a regular here and I dont see that Its just my lived experience of using node.js build systems

I just hope agos can recognize the sarcasm.

Re: Tailwind CSS v4.0 Beta 1

#119

Post by dcre »

joshdavham wrote: post #17
dcre wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a lot of the optimization work was for dev time and it carried over to build time. I listened to a podcast interview with Adam Wathan where I think he said they just got really into shaving nanoseconds. They have a very successful business and I think they just enjoyed doing this work. On the other hand I do think even if you’re cutting from 50ms to 5ms (both low numbers in absolute terms) there are often new…

> there are often new unforeseen workflows that become possible once you can do that operation so frequently that it’s free. You could do it on every keystroke. That’s really interesting to think about actually! What kinds of practical things do you think could be enabled by an extremely fast tailwindcss?

I'm probably not going to be the one to figure them out, but like I suggested, hot reload on every keystroke is the first thing that comes to mind. It's probably better not to think of Tailwind CSS on its own here, but rather as one super fast part of a broader super fast build pipeline. Making Tailwind fast just means it's not the blocker. Imagine combining 10 or 20 tools that all have sub-millisecond incremental build times.

Re: Tailwind CSS v4.0 Beta 1

#120

Post by dcre »

kookamamie wrote: post #46

Read some of the Getting Started documentation, for fun. First step: > Installing with Vite What the hell is Vite? Oh, it seems to be something you need to install via npm. I cannot help but to ask - why do we require npm, or Vite, for something that looks like it should "help" with CSS? Why is the webdev such a shitshow, that seems to get ever deeper into its own weird rabbit hole?

If you scroll down 6 inches you'll see there is also a standalone CLI.
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