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Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

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Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#111

Post by throwup238 »

ohyes wrote: post #66
throwup238 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The next line of the article after that 40% quote: > Carla Prado, a nutrition researcher in the Faculty of Agricultural, Life & Environmental Sciences and lead author on the commentary, explains this rate of muscle decline is significantly higher than what is typically observed with calorie-reduced diets or normal aging and could lead to a host of long-term health issues — including decreased immunity, increased risk…

> Losing weight without losing muscle mass is very hard. Yes it is. > It requires extreme diets like a protein sparring modified fast where 80%+ of your calories are from lean protein while running a 50% caloric deficit. I’m not any sort of expert but that sounds frankly, dangerous. I don’t see how you do something like that without damaging your liver. It’s very possible to lose weight and gain muscle, but you have…

> I’m not any sort of expert but that sounds frankly, dangerous. I don’t see how you do something like that without damaging your liver.

I haven’t seen any credible research that a healthy person can damage their liver from excessive protein intake. Someone suffering from liver disease needs to be careful, sure, but evidence that it would harm a healthy liver is practically nonexistent.

That said, PSMF is explicitly not a sustainable diet and proponents generally don’t claim it to be. It’s a short term diet meant to preserve muscle mass under extreme caloric restriction (under 1.2k calories).

> Eat a balanced diet without junk, work out regularly, and keep the calories to only what is necessary.

If it were as simple as that, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#112

Post by throwaway2037 »

talkingtab wrote: post #96

It concerns me how discussions, such as this one go on HN. This is an important topic. With the epidemic of obesity we now find a drug that appeals to a large number of people. This is an important topic as well. What is the current comment receiving most of the comment? "That's the sort of headlines that smells like bullshit to me" That's the sort of comment that smells like bullshit to me. What kind of place is thi…

I agree 100%. Those kinds of comments have no place, and add little to nothing to the discussion. Many HN discussions outside of pure tech invite all kinds of crazy and uninformed comments -- health/diet, finance/economy, etc.

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#114

Post by whythre »

voisin wrote: post #101
throwup238 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The next line of the article after that 40% quote: > Carla Prado, a nutrition researcher in the Faculty of Agricultural, Life & Environmental Sciences and lead author on the commentary, explains this rate of muscle decline is significantly higher than what is typically observed with calorie-reduced diets or normal aging and could lead to a host of long-term health issues — including decreased immunity, increased risk…

> If you continue to eat a protein and nutrient deficient diet (which is probably a majority of Americans) Is it true the majority of Americans eat a protein deficient diet? I always thought there was too much protein in the western diet - nearly at every meals versus how we would have evolved with somewhat limited access.

A lot of what Americans consume is really crappy carbs and sugar, unfortunately. Even fatty meats would be better than that.

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#115

Post by adastra22 »

leoqa wrote: post #83
llamaimperative wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Odd Lots (Bloomberg finance podcast) had an episode back in June or something interviewing a food design consultant, and their focus groups came back very strongly in favor of healthier meal compositions. Agreed though, it's hard to know things :) Hopefully some real studies on this will be done soon.

Industry led focus group is not a legitimate source.

Depends on the focus group. Some are put together too establish that a product is wanted. Those are junk and useless. Others like this are designed to tease out trends and their accuracy is very valuable to the companies that commission them.

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#116

Post by burnt-resistor »

throwup238 wrote: post #72
llamaimperative wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The rather obvious problem is that these GLP1 agonists don't improve your diet My understanding from initial anecdotes is this is actually literally wrong. Which was surprising to me, too. But people on GLPs tend to prefer more nutritious food (high protein and high fiber). I'm not sure if this has been studied directly in clinical trials yet but I know that food manufacturers have been reorienting their products t…

I’ve heard that anecdote from HN users many times but based on my meatspace social group of (mostly) California yuppies, that effect is vastly overstated. Even some of the diabetics I know on Ozempic have started using it as an excuse for a shittier diet. Now my sample size is barely ten people on Ozempic/Wegovy so take it with a grain of salt and what not, but I’m skeptical. I bet there’s a large group of people - p…

I take mirtazepene because it's the only antidepressant that works for me; unfortunately, it's also a massive orexigetic. And also unfortunately I have original Medicare that doesn't cover semaglutide until I develop additional heart problems or diabetes, so I'm forced to buy compounded semaglutide for 10% of the retail cost (but still higher than the rest of the world) out-of-pocket from a local large, retail, independent pharmacy that wouldn't risk bankruptcy selling fake medications.

And I don't eat meat for non-dietary reasons that include existential risks to all of humanity:

- Pandemics - Where did the "Spanish" flu (and influenza A, Asian flu, HK flu, and 2009 pandemics) and COVID come from?

- Antibiotic resistance - Most classes of antibiotics used in humans are also used to make industrially-farmed animals grow faster, leading to greater antibiotic resistance and more potential bacterial pandemics too

- Climate change - 17%, at least

- Air pollution - Not just the smell of pig crap in the air

- Water pollution - Ag runoff has been ruining river delta systems

- Soil pollution - (It's gross)

- Fewer available calories for total consumption

- More expensive foods by less supply and more demand

(Never bother with "meat is murder" dramatic preaching because most people who eat meat suffer from cognitive dissonance preventing them from admitting their lifestyle choice causes animal cruelty.)

When I was on and could afford semaglutide, I improved my diet by consuming a high protein product with a low calorie breakfast nutrition supplement. I'm sure I probably could've accomplished similar with a multivitamin and a protein product. What I need to change is eating more low calorie, high fiber fruits and vegetables that don't taste like cardboard or a mowed lawn. My diet has gone to shit again because the insatiable, all-consuming (no pun intended) hunger has returned. I can't afford semaglutide right now so I must become unhealtier than simply obesity in a similar but lesser way than women who can't get surgeries until they're septic and dying from failed ectopic pregnancies before it will be covered... because somehow obesity is completely my lack of willpower when I wasn't obese before mirtazapine.

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#117

Post by 7e »

“Dyck, who is the Canada Research Chair in Molecular Medicine and heads up the Cardiovascular Research Centre, says his team did not observe any detrimental functional effects in hearts of mice with smaller hearts and thus would not expect any overt health effects in humans.”

This makes sense. If fasting hurt your heart many of your ancestors would have died early. There is strong selection pressure to survive extended fasts.

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#118

Post by elevatedastalt »

talkingtab wrote: post #96

It concerns me how discussions, such as this one go on HN. This is an important topic. With the epidemic of obesity we now find a drug that appeals to a large number of people. This is an important topic as well. What is the current comment receiving most of the comment? "That's the sort of headlines that smells like bullshit to me" That's the sort of comment that smells like bullshit to me. What kind of place is thi…

The HN you are yearning for disappeared about 8-10 years ago when it was largely taken over by normies and people way outside the hard-core-tech fold. It's not very different from Reddit front-page now if the topic is even remotely political.

For purely technical topics you expect good quality discussion, but those threads barely get comments in the two digits.

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#119

Post by anon84873628 »

turbojet1321 wrote: post #87
zemvpferreira wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Losing weight without losing muscle mass is very hard. I was with you up to here. In my experience it's easy to maintain a huge proportion of your lean tissue during a weight loss diet: Do some resistance training, get some protein, and don't lose weight too quickly. There's no need to go to the extreme of a PSMF - which will still have you lose a bunch of muscle on account of being too big a deficit. If you can kee…

It's notoriously hard to lose fat without also losing muscle. That's why bodybuilders bulk well past their target muscle mass before they cut for competition. I agree that you can do a lot to mitigate it through protein intake and resistance training, but you'll almost certainly still lose muscle when you're in caloric deficit, regardless.

Furthermore, this effect is dependent on genetics. What is no problem for one guy in the comment thread could be very challenging for another.

Also, "just do proper resistance training" is a bit of a stretch when we're talking about what is practical to expect of the masses taking Ozempic.

Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells

#120

Post by anon291 »

talkingtab wrote: post #96

It concerns me how discussions, such as this one go on HN. This is an important topic. With the epidemic of obesity we now find a drug that appeals to a large number of people. This is an important topic as well. What is the current comment receiving most of the comment? "That's the sort of headlines that smells like bullshit to me" That's the sort of comment that smells like bullshit to me. What kind of place is thi…

I have noticed this too. The site guidelines say 'no low effort comments', but low effort comments that fit the general zeitgeist are often allowed, while well-thought-out ones that disagree are downvoted. If anyone has a suggestion for an alternative forum focused on technology and science, I really would love suggestions.
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