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Meta Fined $843M by EU over Marketplace Ads

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Re: Meta Fined $843M by EU over Marketplace Ads

#111

Post by ktosobcy »

olliebrkr wrote: post #45

It surprises me how many people here are against this decision, and expressing sentiment that this is bad for the EU tech scene. Meta has been fined because they employed tactics to undermine competition and persistently employ anti-competitive tactics. Why is it wrong for the EU to force companies to obey it's laws and act in the best interest of it's inhabitants? The companies being targeted are some of the biggest…

Well... it's because HN community is only driven by VC money and disruptors and have absolutely no morals - just to abuse whatever the heck is possible to abuse so any notion of trying to regulate the "wild wild west" is to them like a total abuse... it's cute and amusing :)

Re: Meta Fined $843M by EU over Marketplace Ads

#112

Post by ktosobcy »

diogofranco wrote: post #57
olliebrkr wrote: post #45

It surprises me how many people here are against this decision, and expressing sentiment that this is bad for the EU tech scene. Meta has been fined because they employed tactics to undermine competition and persistently employ anti-competitive tactics. Why is it wrong for the EU to force companies to obey it's laws and act in the best interest of it's inhabitants? The companies being targeted are some of the biggest…

Do you live in the EU? From where I stand I mostly got cookie banners, can't get to Google maps or flights from Google search, get AI launches 6 months after the rest of the world if at all etc.. Not yet feeling all the consumer benefits

I do live in the EU.

1) cookie banners are because tech giants are giants c-nts that will do anything to drive their point (and they are breaking the law because "reject" is usually hidden); though the UE should push to have it as a browser setting and voila - not nagging

2) there was a push for Google, as a monopolist, to offer option to use different map services but becase it's typical for the bully to abuse it's possition they removed the setting. And it seems to work as it causes the frustration in the end users.

It's kinda sad that people are still drinking google cool-aid

Re: Meta Fined $843M by EU over Marketplace Ads

#113

Post by ktosobcy »

bko wrote: post #79
sofixa wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your pictures weren't used to train AI models. Facebook can no longer create shadow profiles for people who aren't on it and thus can't consent. You can ask any company to tell you all they know about you, and delete it (with some small regulatory exceptions). You don't have 50 different chargers in your home. And a million other things.

> Your pictures weren't used to train AI models. This is almost certainly untrue. But if it gives you a piece of mind, so be it. > Facebook can no longer create shadow profiles for people who aren't on it. What impact does Facebook not having a ledger with my name on it have on my life? You still have ads and tracking in Europe, except now with cookie banners. > You can ask any company to tell you all they know about…

Funny enough I have free next day shipping (or even same day if order in the morning) and I'm in the UE. Magic!

Re: Meta Fined $843M by EU over Marketplace Ads

#114

Post by ktosobcy »

crazygringo wrote: post #97
mdhb wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why don’t you exercise your personal preferences by moving to the US?

You realize Europeans can't just "move to the US"? Like you have to get a work visa or green card which can be extremely difficult. There are a ton of Europeans who would love to move to the US and can't. Are you trying to suggest Europeans shouldn't complain about the EU? Because that seems... backwards.

> Like you have to get a work visa or green card which can be extremely difficult.

Darn... so the US is not the land of the free? Gosh! Wait till you learn about all the other stuff you can't do there xD

Re: Meta Fined $843M by EU over Marketplace Ads

#115

Post by ktosobcy »

aurareturn wrote: post #61
olliebrkr wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's 100% predatory. I hope we will see similar cases brought against Amazon soon (if they haven't been already). The fact that so many companies are dependent on selling on Amazon, yet Amazon also sells their own products, is ludicrous. - AcmeShop sells 3d printers and sell on Amazon - Amazon sees these printers are selling well - Amazon buys/creates their own 3d printer brand - Amazon gives their own products prefe…

Is Amazon able to make a better value 3d printer? If yes, seems like consumers win? If no, then people will lose trust on Amazon over time and will use other shopping platforms. So Amazon is basically trading short-term profit for long-term profit.

Aww... have you ever heard about price dumping to kill the competition? Kindle would be a good example here :D

Re: Meta Fined $843M by EU over Marketplace Ads

#116

Post by crazygringo »

dgroshev wrote: post #108
crazygringo wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you've lost me. I thought you were suggesting this was remarketing, now you're saying it's just targeted advertising, are you saying targeted advertising is bad? Because AcmeShop is free to run targeted ads on Facebook too, whether remarketing or not. I genuinely don't understand what you think Facebook is doing wrong here in having a targeted ads platform at the same time as running Marketplace. I don't see…

Alright, let's reframe this: - AcmeShop is paying Facebook money to run a targeted marketing campaign on Facebook - to do this, in practice AcmeShop is forced to share visit data with Facebook (this bit could be done differently, but for some reason that's how Facebook does it) - a customer goes to AcmeShop, doesn't make an immediate purchase, leaves - AcmeShop is paying Facebook to run a remarketing campaign for tha…

Thanks for explaining. I think I've identified the part in your argument I don't understand:

> but they [Facebook] control which ads they are showing, and naturally with Marketplace-only placements Facebook has an advantage over AcmeShop

My question is, why do you think Facebook won't simply sell the ad space to the highest bidder, whether it is AcmeShop or a Marketplace seller? Why do you think Facebook is giving an advantage to Marketplace ads? Do you have any evidence they are?

Remember, Facebook doesn't even make money if you sell something locally and pay in cash. A big way that Marketplace makes money is through ads. But if AcmeShop is bidding more for ad space, then presumably Facebook will show the AcmeShop retargeting ad instead.

If there is evidence that Facebook is showing lower-bidding Marketplace ads over higher-bidding AcmeShop ads in your Instagram feed, because of the fee it takes on shipped items that use Facebook Marketplace Payments, then yes I agree that would definitely be an abuse of power! And thank you for explaining that -- if that is what you're saying.

But I think it has to be shown that Facebook is actually engaging in that kind of anti-competitive behavior. We can't just assume it. There's nothing inherently wrong with running the two businesses together.

(Also, if by "Marketplace-only placements" you're referring to boosting listings within Marketplace as opposed to more general ads like on Facebook, there's nothing preventing AcmeShop from listing and boosting its items on Marketplace as well.)

Re: Meta Fined $843M by EU over Marketplace Ads

#117

Post by dgroshev »

crazygringo wrote: post #116
dgroshev wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alright, let's reframe this: - AcmeShop is paying Facebook money to run a targeted marketing campaign on Facebook - to do this, in practice AcmeShop is forced to share visit data with Facebook (this bit could be done differently, but for some reason that's how Facebook does it) - a customer goes to AcmeShop, doesn't make an immediate purchase, leaves - AcmeShop is paying Facebook to run a remarketing campaign for tha…

Thanks for explaining. I think I've identified the part in your argument I don't understand: > but they [Facebook] control which ads they are showing, and naturally with Marketplace-only placements Facebook has an advantage over AcmeShop My question is, why do you think Facebook won't simply sell the ad space to the highest bidder, whether it is AcmeShop or a Marketplace seller? Why do you think Facebook is giving an…

> why do you think Facebook won't simply sell the ad space to the highest bidder, whether it is AcmeShop or a Marketplace seller?

Depends on which placement you mean.

"Boosted listings" in Facebook Marketplace? AcmeShop can't bid on that.

In-Marketplace ads like [0]? They are similarly in-Marketplace, I don't think it's technically possible to bid on them.

In-feed Marketplace ads like [1]? They are specifically Marketplace, I have no evidence that they enter the same bidding pool, and it seems improbable.

In-feed generic auto-placed ads like [2]? Maybe, maybe not.

> Remember, Facebook doesn't even make money if you sell something locally and pay in cash.

Facebook doesn't just make money from boosted listings, they also benefit from people just using Facebook. Even if Facebook didn't make any money directly from Marketplace, it'd still be worth it for them and it'd still be anti-competitive. If they can make themselves the main marketplace, it creates a large captive audience scrolling through their ads.

> But I think it has to be shown that Facebook is actually engaging in that kind of anti-competitive behavior. We can't just assume it.

Aren't we commenting under an article about a fine for anti-competitive behaviour?

[0]: https://storage.googleapis.com/website-production/uploads/20...

[1]: https://newsfeed.org/wp-content/uploads/Marketplace_boosted_...

[2]: https://storage.googleapis.com/website-production/uploads/20...

Re: Meta Fined $843M by EU over Marketplace Ads

#118

Post by ahmeneeroe-v2 »

olliebrkr wrote: post #74
ahmeneeroe-v2 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does that have to do with anything? You don't become an economic super power by letting poorer countries tax your richest companies.

but you can become an economic super power by avoiding tax smaller companies pay?

Tax strategy is so integral to large corporations' business strategy that "tax strategy ≈ business strategy" is basically a true statement for them.

Re: Meta Fined $843M by EU over Marketplace Ads

#120

Post by techjamie »

crazygringo wrote: post #96
piltdownman wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A retail store selling various kinds of retail goods and a Social Network embedding a Classified Ads service in their core offering are not remotely equivalent.

No, the social network with the classifieds service is much better. The reason it's so good is that it has real people's identities tied to the listings. That massively decreases issues around scams and safety. I want those things to be connected. I don't want regulations that make that illegal. That's the opposite of progress and consumer benefit.

> The reason it's so good is that it has real people's identities tied to the listings. That massively decreases issues around scams and safety.

Facebook Marketplace is infested with all sorts of scams. It's not the worst, but scams aren't exactly rare, either.

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