Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A neurology ICU nurse on AI in hospitals

codastory.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 145 posts

Re: A neurology ICU nurse on AI in hospitals

#111

Post by RHSeeger »

theptip wrote: post #64

> As a nurse, you end up relying on intuition a lot. It’s in the way a patient says something, or just a feeling you get from how they look There is a longstanding tension between those who believe human intuition is trustworthy, and the “checklist manifesto” folks. Personally I want room for both, there are plenty of cases where for example the nurse/doctor’s intuition fails and they forget to ask about travel or ou…

It's interesting to me because AI and intuition serve some of the same purpose; to help the person being served find the answer. And both have similar limitations in that you need to verify what they're telling you.

- If your gut tells you it's Lyme Disease, you don't just check it off as Lyme Disease and call it a day. You run tests to find out if it is

- If the AI tells you it it's Lyme Disease, you don't just check it off as Lyme Disease and call it a day. You run tests to find out if it is

AI should (almost?) never be used as the system of record. But it can be amazing in saving time; by guiding you to the right answer.

Re: A neurology ICU nurse on AI in hospitals

#112

Post by tqi »

015a wrote: post #106
tqi wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That other than 2020 (ie COVID), life expectancy has been continuously rising for the last 100 years?

Its actually much scarier than that: the trend started reversing ~2017, COVID accelerated it, and it hasn't recovered post-COVID. Naturally, changes to any sufficiently complex system take years to truly manifest their impact in broad statistics; sometimes decades. But, don't discount this single line from the original article: > Then in 2018, the hospital bought a new program from Epic

How does that qualify as evidence that "outcomes have been getting worse for decades?"

Re: A neurology ICU nurse on AI in hospitals

#113

Post by RandomGuy4567 »

ilaksh wrote: post #108

This is a problem with management, not AI. The acuity system obviously doesn't work well and wasn't properly rolled out. It's clear that they did not even explain how it was supposed to work. That's a problem with that system and it's deployment, not AI in general. Recording verbal conversations instead of making doctors and nurses always type things is surely the result of a massive portion of doctors saying that re…

I completelly agree with you. I am a Nurse and also work on AI research (deep learning).

In my opinion most of the tension between healthcare profesionals and the diffferent AI systems out there boil down to poor management and shitty implementation.

As "decision support tools" there should not be much mistrust or sense of fear towards AI.

There are though some concerning isues regarding patient privacy, and employee surveilance/rights. Specially when these systems are sharing sensitive data with third parties. But this can (and provably should) be regulated.

Nothing of this "mean that AI isn't useful and won't continue to become more useful". Right on point!

Re: A neurology ICU nurse on AI in hospitals

#114

Post by RandomGuy4567 »

boohoo123 wrote: post #60

100% agree AI will ruin healthcare. I'm an IT director at a rural mental health clinic and I see the push for AI across my state and it's scary what they want. All i can do is push back. Healthcare is a case by case personal connection, something AI can't do. It only reduces humans down to numbers and operates on that. There is no difference between healthcare AI to a web scraper on webmd or mayo clinic.

[dead]

Re: A neurology ICU nurse on AI in hospitals

#115

Post by 8338550bff96 »

theptip wrote: post #64

> As a nurse, you end up relying on intuition a lot. It’s in the way a patient says something, or just a feeling you get from how they look There is a longstanding tension between those who believe human intuition is trustworthy, and the “checklist manifesto” folks. Personally I want room for both, there are plenty of cases where for example the nurse/doctor’s intuition fails and they forget to ask about travel or ou…

None of this has to do with. AI. At all.

This is politics and policy

Re: A neurology ICU nurse on AI in hospitals

#116

Post by 015a »

tqi wrote: post #112
015a wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its actually much scarier than that: the trend started reversing ~2017, COVID accelerated it, and it hasn't recovered post-COVID. Naturally, changes to any sufficiently complex system take years to truly manifest their impact in broad statistics; sometimes decades. But, don't discount this single line from the original article: > Then in 2018, the hospital bought a new program from Epic

How does that qualify as evidence that "outcomes have been getting worse for decades?"

I did not say it was evidence. I actually stated it was a quite poor source; but that it is at least illustrative of the point.

Re: A neurology ICU nurse on AI in hospitals

#117

Post by moralestapia »

boohoo123 wrote: post #60

100% agree AI will ruin healthcare. I'm an IT director at a rural mental health clinic and I see the push for AI across my state and it's scary what they want. All i can do is push back. Healthcare is a case by case personal connection, something AI can't do. It only reduces humans down to numbers and operates on that. There is no difference between healthcare AI to a web scraper on webmd or mayo clinic.

I'm not vouching for AI, I actually thing it will only make things worse.

But,

>Healthcare is a case by case personal connection [...]

I haven't felt this with doctors in like 20 years.

Re: A neurology ICU nurse on AI in hospitals

#118

Post by wing-_-nuts »

FireBeyond wrote: post #88
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article feels very much like a union rep fighting automation. If AI is provably worse, we should see that come up in the AI making 'bad calls' vs the human team. You would even see affects on health outcomes. One place I'd really like an all seeing eye AI overlord is in nursing home care. I have seen family members lie in filth with clear signs of an infection. I am confident, if we hadn't visited, seen this, and…

Sadly, the one thing I took from my time as an EMT and paramedic was which nursing homes to consider and which to avoid. I filed more than one complaint with the DOH. It's a standing joke that whenever 911 crews respond to a nursing home, the report you'll get from staff will be a bingo game of: - "I just got on shift; I don't know why you were called." - "This is not my usual floor; I'm just covering while someone i…

Well, now I want to know, how do you pick a good one?

Re: A neurology ICU nurse on AI in hospitals

#119

Post by tqi »

015a wrote: post #116
tqi wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that qualify as evidence that "outcomes have been getting worse for decades?"

I did not say it was evidence. I actually stated it was a quite poor source; but that it is at least illustrative of the point.

Of the point that outcomes have been getting worse for decades?

Re: A neurology ICU nurse on AI in hospitals

#120

Post by Sabinus »

FireBeyond wrote: post #88
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article feels very much like a union rep fighting automation. If AI is provably worse, we should see that come up in the AI making 'bad calls' vs the human team. You would even see affects on health outcomes. One place I'd really like an all seeing eye AI overlord is in nursing home care. I have seen family members lie in filth with clear signs of an infection. I am confident, if we hadn't visited, seen this, and…

Sadly, the one thing I took from my time as an EMT and paramedic was which nursing homes to consider and which to avoid. I filed more than one complaint with the DOH. It's a standing joke that whenever 911 crews respond to a nursing home, the report you'll get from staff will be a bingo game of: - "I just got on shift; I don't know why you were called." - "This is not my usual floor; I'm just covering while someone i…

Name and shame. In the absence of adequate government protections, only company reputation protects consumers from exploitation.
Post reply on HN