Live data from Hacker News

Bitcoin has made a new all-time high price

coinbase.com

111–120 of 343 posts

Re: Bitcoin has made a new all-time high price

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto can be used as a store of wealth when crossing borders preventing search and seizure of your wealth against overzealous governments. See Russia in the early 90s which would regularly search and confiscate cash from people leaving. That alone makes it very valuable.

What's the scenario where the government can take the digital money from your bank accounts but can't take the digital money from your crypto wallet?

Government cannot take money from a crypto wallet because of cryptography. They could only do it if they compelled you to hand over your secret keys against your will. They also may not even know you have a crypto wallet since it is not registered in your name and is very easy to hide.

On the other hand, government can sieze funds from your bank account by seeking a court order or whatever legal instrument is needed in your jurisdiction.

Re: Bitcoin has made a new all-time high price

#112
post #7
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought Bitcoin and crypto is just fools gold, why get involved with blockchains and worst of all, proof of work?

I did not downvote you, but I want to respond to your question instead of taking the approach of weaponizing hn votes to simply suppress perspectives I disagree with, and I'd encourage my pro-crypto friends to do the same. We have to treat dissenters and critics with the same open-minded, good-faith, respectful dialogue we want them to offer us. I don't mean to suggest I'm not a biased partisan, but I will be a good-…

Sure. I’ll bite as someone who was formerly “into” crypto.

> Bitcoin is essentially a permissionless (third world citizens, political outcasts, people governments don't like are still able to use it without the government being able to cut them off)

It is not substantially more useful than any other transferable assets for those that need to worry about governments. At the end of the day, those governments still have the ability to jail or kill you. Bitcoin won’t help. Ironically, the more accepted and “integrated” with the financial system in the West it becomes, the less this holds true.

> non-inflationary (inflation is everywhere and always a monetary phenomenon - the result of too many units of currency chasing too few goods and services, almost always a result of rampant currency debasement, not possible with bitcoin's hard-coded 21 million cap)

There’s been an infinite number of arguments written about inflation and why we moved to fiat currencies in the first place, I won’t rehash them. Instead I’ll put forth my pet definitions.

Money is the ability to get work done. A country’s money supply should grow with their ability to get work done, otherwise the pressure is deflationary as the economy becomes more efficient and capable. We know all the reasons deflationary currencies are bad.

> universal (every country can trust it because no one country can control it) currency.

As long as they can control you access to the internet, they can control your access to your crypto.

> currency

This is where we diverge most. Bitcoin isn’t a currency and the network will not support it becoming one. It is, as bitcoiners love to put it, a store of value. Which makes it like any other commodity, except it has no intrinsic value which makes it a purely speculative asset and it’s price is directly correlated not with usefulness but with capital seeking (higher risk) returns. This becomes more clear as institutional money goes into bitcoin, not for the purpose of transacting, but to seek gains/hedge other areas of the market.

Ironically, the more people invest in bitcoin, the worse it is as a currency, and the lower the value is to me.

> This enables a framework for the working class to start saving in ways government cannot steal back from them through inflation.

There are other assets for this.

> This enables trustless

This is the one that drives me nuts with crypto. Somewhere in a transaction, something has to happen in the real world. There is not interface between the blockchain and the real world that is truly trustless. You must depend on reality being correctly reported on.

In fact, almost all of the rent seeking in our existing system is built on adding buffers based on the amount of trust in the transaction.

Everything in the real world either depends on either trust (and the associated systems to manage risk) or power (where the whole government institution part of money comes in).

> It's worth acknowledging in good faith that these computational costs have electrical load costs, which often do have carbon emitting costs, too.

Kind of downplaying the sheer size of the carbon emitting costs here…

Re: Bitcoin has made a new all-time high price

#114
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not downvote you, but I want to respond to your question instead of taking the approach of weaponizing hn votes to simply suppress perspectives I disagree with, and I'd encourage my pro-crypto friends to do the same. We have to treat dissenters and critics with the same open-minded, good-faith, respectful dialogue we want them to offer us. I don't mean to suggest I'm not a biased partisan, but I will be a good-…

> (inflation is everywhere and always a monetary phenomenon - the result of too many units of currency chasing too few goods and services, almost always a result of rampant currency debasement, not possible with bitcoin's hard-coded 21 million cap) Except when it's not, like in Japan which has had a growing money supply but near-zero inflation—and even bouts of deflation—over the last few years/decades: * https://fre…

I haven't read your entire reply, but the top link has a graph relating CPI with M2 if I'm not mistaken. Is'nt CPI a terrible measurement since it uses units that change constantly. Bit like measuring distance with a meter stick that changes in length everyday.

Re: Bitcoin has made a new all-time high price

#115
post #49

It has in dollar terms but it still hasn't on an inflation adjusted basis. One bitcoin today has less purchasing power than at its peak in November 2021. The dollar has lost about 12.5% since then so the true all time high would be around $79250.

"so far"

Re: Bitcoin has made a new all-time high price

#117
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Stablecoins are much better for payments Stablecoins on what 'network/coin/layer/chain'? Stablecoins on top of ETH? On top of SOL? On top of ETH BASE? On top of ETH Arbitrum/Optimism? Binance Smart Chain? Tron? Polygon?

Doesn’t even matter, because stablecoins are basically acknowledging that all of the crypto tech is a farce and all you need is a digital currency tied to IRL currencies.

> that all of the crypto tech is a farce

Kind of. I would say blockchain hasn't really worked out. Walmart/shipping industries isn't forcing their suppliers to be on some public blockchain, that's for sure.

The on ramp and off ramp stories for crypto to/from fiat are pretty gross. I can send money with Venmo, CashApp, PayPal, etc. domestically

As soon as you talk about (probably breaking some laws) international transfers, it's an interesting tech that's getting adopted.

The blockchain aspects of it kind of don't matter. People just want to send USD-backed-something over country border walls, right?

Post reply on HN