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Jaywalking legalized in New York City

theguardian.com

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Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#111

Post by gotoeleven »

nobody9999 wrote: post #54
hnbad wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read the article? Pedestrians can always cross but they then don't have the right of way and have to yield to traffic. Basically everyone can keep doing what they've been doing all along but police can no longer arrest them for it through selective enforcement.

>Did you read the article? Pedestrians can always cross but they then don't have the right of way and have to yield to traffic. Basically everyone can keep doing what they've been doing all along but police can no longer arrest them for it through selective enforcement. As a lifelong New Yorker, I can tell you that arrest is never an option for any violation of the city's administrative code. Rather it's a fine. And…

[flagged]

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#112

Post by wahern »

oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #41
leptons wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most places, jaywalking typically means crossing outside of a crosswalk while being within a short distance of a crosswalk. It's more dangerous for pedestrians near crosswalks, cars are turning and have limited visibility, so using the crosswalk (when crossing is allowed, if there's a crossing indicator) is the rule. If you are a certain distance away from a crosswalk, you are allowed to cross the road but must yi…

I think "no jaywalking because safety" would make more sense if crosswalks were totally safe. Correct me if I'm wrong, but in NY, can't traffic move over crosswalks even against traffic lights, in some circumstances? I always find that confusing-and frightening!

New York City is actually one of the few US jurisdictions that DO NOT permit right turns on red as a default rule.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#113

Post by kube-system »

fragmede wrote: post #67
tsimionescu wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In certain parts of the USA, cars are allowed to turn right from the first lane even on a red light, unless there is some explicit sign prohibiting it in that intersection.

Unless expressly prohibited , eg by said sign, right-turn-on-red defaults to being legal across vthe US.

Not entirely. Right-on-red is by default illegal in NYC, and will be soon in DC and Atlanta.

Also a good number of states prohibit right-on-red by default when the red light is in the shape of an arrow.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#114

Post by vel0city »

leptons wrote: post #90
tsimionescu wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In certain parts of the USA, cars are allowed to turn right from the first lane even on a red light, unless there is some explicit sign prohibiting it in that intersection.

Yes, and in that case the car has to yield to the pedestrian, if the pedestrian has the right of way. It's really very simple, and in every basic driving test.

The problem is the driver is likely looking to the left to see if it's safe to quickly pull out and not bother looking to their right for that pedestrian stepping out into the intersection.

I've been lightly hit a few times because of people like that.

I've also almost been hit by people ignoring the stop line and stopping abruptly in the crosswalk area immediately in front of me.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#115

Post by rsynnott »

vasco wrote: post #3
olliej wrote: post #2

Not growing up in america I never understood what jaywalking was - I legit assumed it was a pedestrian crossing a freeway because nothing else made sense. Growing up I was taught explicitly to do what in the US was a crime: crossing between intersections because it is vastly safer than crossing at intersections. Obviously, there's a more complex issue with jaywalking where it is a crime that is trivially easy to enfo…

Jaywalking is any crossing in a wrong / illegal way, not about intersections specifically. Mostly it's about not using crosswalks, so I don't see how it collides with what Europe does. In Europe you also have differences with some countries where crosswalk lights are as a mandate from God and nobody will cross even at 2am deserted road. And then you have countries where the crosswalk lights are mere decorations.

> In Europe you also have differences with some countries where crosswalk lights are as a mandate from God and nobody will cross even at 2am deserted road

I think that's mostly just certain parts of Germany.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#116

Post by jplrssn »

potato3732842 wrote: post #97

It was de-facto legal to begin with. The only people who were ever hurt by this law were the people who insisted on abiding by the law beyond the point of absurdity. I appreciate that this is one less crime the average person commits every day that a capricious enforcer can make a big deal of but the flip side is that this reduces the competitive advantage of not being law abiding to the point of absurdity and your o…

Seems to me like greater damage was being done to the people getting stopped and searched on the pretext of jaywalking. From the article:

> The Legal Aid Society called the legislation long overdue. The non-profit organization, which provides free legal representation to New Yorkers who cannot afford a lawyer, said police for decades have used the violation as a pretext to stop, question and frisk residents – especially those of color.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#117

Post by vel0city »

Gigachad wrote: post #73
fire_lake wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making the pedestrians go the long way prioritises driving, which leads to more people driving, which leads to more traffic, fumes, etc. But most broken seems like a stretch!

The average person probably violates jaywalking laws multiple times a day. What other law do most people break constantly as just part of day to day life?

I imagine most Americans violate speeding and other vehicles moving laws far more often than jaywalking. I imagine the majority of Americans haven't actually crossed a street as a pedestrian in the last week.

Why would they? They drive from their home to their job to the parking lot of the grocery store to the drive through pickup line at school for their kids.

I'm one of the more transit/pedestrian/bike people in the group I routinely hang out with and I haven't actually crossed the street as a pedestrian in a few days.

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#118

Post by ssl-3 »

bragr wrote: post #110
metabagel wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had to look this up. "Safe jaywalking" is legal in California, but if you risk a collision, you can be cited. ---------- VC 21955. (a) Between adjacent intersections controlled by traffic control signal devices or by police officers, pedestrians shall not cross the roadway at any place except in a crosswalk. (b) (1) A peace officer, as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 of the…

>I cross where ever when it is safe and convenient

I do, too.

But -- in California -- it remains illegal to do so in sections of roadway that are betwixt two traffic lights, no matter how safe an convenient it is.

(We've got very similarly-worded restrictions here in Ohio, too, FWIW.)

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#119

Post by ferrous69 »

standardUser wrote: post #108

First, let's not forget that jaywalking is one of those "crimes" that is used as a pretense by police to harass people, usually young people and people of color. Second, as a veteran jaywalker, my rule of thumb is that if a car has to hit their breaks even a little, or otherwise alter their trajectory, you're doing it wrong. The goal should be smooth movement for all. Third, just because someone else is jaywalking do…

> if a car has to hit their breaks even a little, or otherwise alter their trajectory, you're doing it wrong.

this is basically NYC law already, including pedestrian interactions

Re: Jaywalking legalized in New York City

#120

Post by jowdones »

standardUser wrote: post #108

First, let's not forget that jaywalking is one of those "crimes" that is used as a pretense by police to harass people, usually young people and people of color. Second, as a veteran jaywalker, my rule of thumb is that if a car has to hit their breaks even a little, or otherwise alter their trajectory, you're doing it wrong. The goal should be smooth movement for all. Third, just because someone else is jaywalking do…

There's also waiting 1-2 minutes for green light on a pedestrian semaphore while the street is entirely empty of cars. If no cops are in sight I definitely cross the street. Usually one or two people get encouraged and also cross but there's always the sticklers who would wait the end of the world if not given the green light.
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