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AWS data center latencies, visualized

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Re: AWS data center latencies, visualized

#111

Post by londons_explore »

CountVonGuetzli wrote: post #109

It would be really cool if it didn't just show the ping, but how much worse it is compared to the theoretical optimum (speed of light in fiber optic medium, which I believe is about 30% slower than c). I raise this because I've been in multiple system architecture meetings where people were complaining about latency between data centers, only to later realize that it was pretty close to what is theoretically possible…

clicking around that map, I don't see any examples where the latency is a long way out of line with the distance.

Obviously it's theoretically possible to do ~40% better by using hollow fibers and as-the-crow-flies fiber routing, but few are willing to pay for that.

Re: AWS data center latencies, visualized

#112

Post by alex_suzuki »

YetAnotherNick wrote: post #95
alex_suzuki wrote: post #47

I have red-green color blindness, which makes it hard/impossible for me to distinguish between the 200ms lines. This affects about 8% of male population btw, maybe you can add a color-blind mode, very nice visualization otherwise!

It's sad that this is the top comment for the post. Many people have stopped posting their crappy work online due to harsh comments like yours. There's no easy reply to your comment. Maybe we should be less critical specially with "Make it fit for my workflow" type comment, and more so if it is built by some random guy in their free time, and not say a project which is asking money.

Sorry it came across that way, that was not my intent at all… it was meant as a simple suggestion for a potential low-hanging fruit improvement that would benefit people like me. Clearly you did not perceive it that way.

Re: AWS data center latencies, visualized

#113

Post by sebzim4500 »

londons_explore wrote: post #111
CountVonGuetzli wrote: post #109

It would be really cool if it didn't just show the ping, but how much worse it is compared to the theoretical optimum (speed of light in fiber optic medium, which I believe is about 30% slower than c). I raise this because I've been in multiple system architecture meetings where people were complaining about latency between data centers, only to later realize that it was pretty close to what is theoretically possible…

clicking around that map, I don't see any examples where the latency is a long way out of line with the distance. Obviously it's theoretically possible to do ~40% better by using hollow fibers and as-the-crow-flies fiber routing, but few are willing to pay for that.

The 'practical' way to beat fiber optics is to use either

(i) a series of overground direct microwave connections (often used by trading firms)

(ii) a series of laser links between low altitude satellites. This would be faster in principle for long distances, and presumably Starlink will eventually offer this service to people that are very latency sensitive

Re: AWS data center latencies, visualized

#114

Post by YetAnotherNick »

sealeck wrote: post #97
YetAnotherNick wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's sad that this is the top comment for the post. Many people have stopped posting their crappy work online due to harsh comments like yours. There's no easy reply to your comment. Maybe we should be less critical specially with "Make it fit for my workflow" type comment, and more so if it is built by some random guy in their free time, and not say a project which is asking money.

I think this an uncharitable take – the parent comment is just proposing an improvement that would really help them given their colour-blindness (they also say they like the visualisation). Personally I find part of the reason for putting things on the internet is to allow other people to use them and obtain their feedback.

Every product has flaws which are outside of design scope. Pointing that is unnecessary. If I want feedback on my quick and dirty project, I want it on within the scope of design, not the missing features, bad accessibility etc.

Specially HN crowd is very susceptible to feeling for accessibility comment. Return of "think of poor kids in Africa".

Re: AWS data center latencies, visualized

#116

Post by Aeolun »

tmalsburg2 wrote: post #115

Very roughly 1/3 of the speed of light. One third is lost to the physical medium it seems. What accounts of the remaining third and how much could be plausibly shaved off of it?

I think the lines the data goes through are unfortunately not quite as straight as they appear in this visualization. Nor is it light all the way.

Re: AWS data center latencies, visualized

#117

Post by sandworm101 »

sebzim4500 wrote: post #113
londons_explore wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

clicking around that map, I don't see any examples where the latency is a long way out of line with the distance. Obviously it's theoretically possible to do ~40% better by using hollow fibers and as-the-crow-flies fiber routing, but few are willing to pay for that.

The 'practical' way to beat fiber optics is to use either (i) a series of overground direct microwave connections (often used by trading firms) (ii) a series of laser links between low altitude satellites. This would be faster in principle for long distances, and presumably Starlink will eventually offer this service to people that are very latency sensitive

Low-bandwidth/low-latency people tend to also demand high reliability and consistency. A low-orbit satellite network might be fast but, because sats move to quickly, cannot be consistent in that speed. Sats also won't ever connect data centers other than perhaps for administrative stuff. The bandwidth/reliability/growth potential just isn't there compared to bundles of traditional fiber.

Re: AWS data center latencies, visualized

#118

Post by immibis »

immibis wrote: post #45
slimsag wrote: post #40

Is there something similar for GCP?

Be the change you want to see. How much does it cost to set up a VM in every availability zone for an hour? Late edit: it would also be cool to see inter-cloud latency.

Additional - I see the app here just shows good/moderate/bad latency. An actual data table would be useful to many people but not as pretty. Maybe there should be a distributed latency measurement network project.

Re: AWS data center latencies, visualized

#119

Post by jeffhuys »

blauditore wrote: post #80
alex_suzuki wrote: post #47

I have red-green color blindness, which makes it hard/impossible for me to distinguish between the 200ms lines. This affects about 8% of male population btw, maybe you can add a color-blind mode, very nice visualization otherwise!

As a quick workaround, you can set a CSS filter on the whole page: Either use dev tools to put a rule `filter: hue-rotate(60deg);` on the `body` element, or simply run `javascript:void(document.body.style.filter='hue-rotate(60deg)')` from the url bar.

let i = 0; setInterval(() => document.body.style.filter=`hue-rotate(${i++}deg)`, 16);

Disco mode!

(better to use requestAnimationFrame but I'm lazy atm)

Re: AWS data center latencies, visualized

#120

Post by sebzim4500 »

sandworm101 wrote: post #117
sebzim4500 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 'practical' way to beat fiber optics is to use either (i) a series of overground direct microwave connections (often used by trading firms) (ii) a series of laser links between low altitude satellites. This would be faster in principle for long distances, and presumably Starlink will eventually offer this service to people that are very latency sensitive

Low-bandwidth/low-latency people tend to also demand high reliability and consistency. A low-orbit satellite network might be fast but, because sats move to quickly, cannot be consistent in that speed. Sats also won't ever connect data centers other than perhaps for administrative stuff. The bandwidth/reliability/growth potential just isn't there compared to bundles of traditional fiber.

There's definitely a few billion a year in revenue for Starlink if they sell very low latency, medium bandwidth connections between Asia, the US, Europe and Australia to trading firms. Even if the reliability is much worse than fiber.
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