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Since spring of 2023, the world has been warmer than climate models anticipated

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Re: Since spring of 2023, the world has been warmer than climate models anticipated

#111
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize of course that this is exactly the claim that someone who wanted to get the worst candidate in the history of the presidency (by a few orders of magnitude) elected would make?

You do realize that this is exactly the kind of feedback that people who are tired of the 'vote blue no matter who' refrain have been giving for years, that has been ignored. Like the people who are getting voted for need to actually turn around and justify the vote we're making for them. And they've been failing to do that, and pointing to the thing that is clearly worse as a reason why they don't have to do better.

Like I said for the other message, this just reads like a cheap trick to suppress the vote that can help address climate change.

If it was 2008 or 2012, maybe. It would have been stupid just the same, but McCain or Romney might not have been a death spell.

This time around, 95% of messages like this are from Trump/Putin/whatever trolls trying to get their guy in, to hell with the climate. If that's not you, apologies, but good luck convincing people you're just being misguided rather than disingenuous.

Re: Since spring of 2023, the world has been warmer than climate models anticipated

#112
post #53
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's crazy that there are still people who don't get this. "It's cold here, so there's no such thing as global warming." They forget that the other hemisphere is on fire.

What’s amazing is despite flawed science people keep believing it and insulting anyone who questions it.

All you have to do is come up with a better model. How flawed the best model is is irrelevant. We use the best model.

Re: Since spring of 2023, the world has been warmer than climate models anticipated

#113
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize that this is exactly the kind of feedback that people who are tired of the 'vote blue no matter who' refrain have been giving for years, that has been ignored. Like the people who are getting voted for need to actually turn around and justify the vote we're making for them. And they've been failing to do that, and pointing to the thing that is clearly worse as a reason why they don't have to do better.

Like I said for the other message, this just reads like a cheap trick to suppress the vote that can help address climate change. If it was 2008 or 2012, maybe. It would have been stupid just the same, but McCain or Romney might not have been a death spell. This time around, 95% of messages like this are from Trump/Putin/whatever trolls trying to get their guy in, to hell with the climate. If that's not you, apologies…

Except this has been the rhetoric of the Democratic party since 2008. And people are tired of it.

This is not 'gaslighting from a republican troll'. This is legitimate criticism from someone who has been holding their nose and 'voting blue no matter who', for the past 4 election cycles, and wants the Democratic party to wake up and not take their voters for granted. Cause every single time they do this, they have been alienating their voters, and making races that should be slam dunks into 'close calls'.

DJT shouldn't have 'toss up' odds, but Democrats won't grow a pair and deal with him like the felon he is. Instead they keep putting it back to the voters and doing the bare minimum to try and make themselves "slightly better than the worst people on earth"

I want real options, but that doesn't happen until democrats can actually make the legitimate policy changes they've been half-assing for the last 30 years.

Re: Since spring of 2023, the world has been warmer than climate models anticipated

#114
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like I said for the other message, this just reads like a cheap trick to suppress the vote that can help address climate change. If it was 2008 or 2012, maybe. It would have been stupid just the same, but McCain or Romney might not have been a death spell. This time around, 95% of messages like this are from Trump/Putin/whatever trolls trying to get their guy in, to hell with the climate. If that's not you, apologies…

Except this has been the rhetoric of the Democratic party since 2008. And people are tired of it. This is not 'gaslighting from a republican troll'. This is legitimate criticism from someone who has been holding their nose and 'voting blue no matter who', for the past 4 election cycles, and wants the Democratic party to wake up and not take their voters for granted. Cause every single time they do this, they have bee…

You're basically saying "there must be a third button here somewhere." The third button is in the primaries.

Right now you're just courting the self-destruction button. You're doing so on behalf of the self-destruction team, whether you're aware of it or not.

Misguided and disingenuous look the same and have the same effect.

Re: Since spring of 2023, the world has been warmer than climate models anticipated

#115
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except this has been the rhetoric of the Democratic party since 2008. And people are tired of it. This is not 'gaslighting from a republican troll'. This is legitimate criticism from someone who has been holding their nose and 'voting blue no matter who', for the past 4 election cycles, and wants the Democratic party to wake up and not take their voters for granted. Cause every single time they do this, they have bee…

You're basically saying "there must be a third button here somewhere." The third button is in the primaries. Right now you're just courting the self-destruction button. You're doing so on behalf of the self-destruction team, whether you're aware of it or not. Misguided and disingenuous look the same and have the same effect.

The argument, is that sometimes you need things to break before you can build something new in their place. I have considered it, and determined I don't want things to break that badly.

And again, I'm not courting the self-destruction button. I'm giving you feedback on why this message is losing its efficacy, and you're ignoring that feedback. This is your wake up call that people are tired of the race to the bottom. Give me a convincing reason to vote for you. Not just a convincing reason to vote against the other side.

Democratic primaries are hella corrupt. Which is why they're not a valid 3rd button. See Pelosi pushing against people getting primaried, only to primary the more progressive wing of the party.

Re: Since spring of 2023, the world has been warmer than climate models anticipated

#116
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're basically saying "there must be a third button here somewhere." The third button is in the primaries. Right now you're just courting the self-destruction button. You're doing so on behalf of the self-destruction team, whether you're aware of it or not. Misguided and disingenuous look the same and have the same effect.

The argument, is that sometimes you need things to break before you can build something new in their place. I have considered it, and determined I don't want things to break that badly. And again, I'm not courting the self-destruction button. I'm giving you feedback on why this message is losing its efficacy, and you're ignoring that feedback. This is your wake up call that people are tired of the race to the bottom.…

The other people on the boat don't have a duty to cater to you. You can't just threaten to sink it if the primaries don't go your way. If you fail to find allies and fix the primaries, you still have a duty to keep the boat (ie. planet Earth) afloat.

Making sinking threats is just what the Martians want. And you still haven't even proven you're not just a Martian in disguise.

Re: Since spring of 2023, the world has been warmer than climate models anticipated

#117
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument, is that sometimes you need things to break before you can build something new in their place. I have considered it, and determined I don't want things to break that badly. And again, I'm not courting the self-destruction button. I'm giving you feedback on why this message is losing its efficacy, and you're ignoring that feedback. This is your wake up call that people are tired of the race to the bottom.…

The other people on the boat don't have a duty to cater to you. You can't just threaten to sink it if the primaries don't go your way. If you fail to find allies and fix the primaries, you still have a duty to keep the boat (ie. planet Earth) afloat. Making sinking threats is just what the Martians want. And you still haven't even proven you're not just a Martian in disguise.

You're a needy crewmate. If I didn't think you were too sincere to be believed as anything else I'd guess you'd found the most effective way to scare people off from voting for Democrats. How do I know you're not a troll? I don't care if you think I'm a troll. I'm definitely just like 10x further to the left than you, and you're so bought into the party line, that you think I both "HAVE TO VOTE DEMOCRATIC" and I can't want things from my elected representatives.

I'm sure you're converting hundreds and thousands with your philosophy of "you have to vote my way or the world will end" and "don't complain about the things you don't like to the elected officials or we might not win."

If Democrats want to have a guaranteed progressive vote, they should make good on some of their promises to the progressive wing of the party. Progressives are more reliably democratic than anyone else, and yet we take the most shit from assholes like you who think that criticism == voting for the other party.

Re: Since spring of 2023, the world has been warmer than climate models anticipated

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the World Economic Forum has presenters like this: WEF Jane Goodall, advocates reducing the global population down to 450 million https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5U7R73_9xQ You might not agree with the Guidelines but are you going to disagree with the entire World Economic Forum? It's even in the popular zeitgeist. Like this example where Bill Maher is advocating for population collapse: New Rule: Let the Po…

Thank you for sharing some sources. To refute your first one: - Jane Goodall in this 36-second clip does NOT advocate reducing the global population down to 450 million - Jane Goodall speaking at a 2020 WEF panel does NOT imply that the WEF endorses any part of her comments Your comment falsely distorts her words, and falsely equates her with the entire WEF. More details: https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-jane-go…

First here are a few direct quotes from the UN's Agenda 21 (granted it's not the WEF but its all the same people at the top).

"Policies should be designed to address the consequences of population growth built into population momentum, while at the same time incorporating measures to bring about demographic transition."

"5.31. National population policy goals and programmes that are consistent with national environment and development plans for sustainability and in keeping with the freedom, dignity and personally held values of individuals should be established and implemented."

Second, I take some issue with the APNews article because they gloss over the main point... Jane Goodall herself does believe in population reduction. This is nothing new, she has been saying this for decades. For example she is a member of the Population Matters Group in the UK (formerly Optimum Population Trust). This group and many like it are actively advocating for governments to implement policies that will put earth's human population into decline for the express purpose of climate change. So I will defend my use of that clip because it makes the point I was trying to make. Important people in power desire to reduce the population to reduce carbon emissions.

To expand my point here are other Jane Goodall quotes from the Population Matters website:

“Educating and empowering women and girls and providing family planning information enables more people to choose the size of their families. These are the kind of positive actions governments can take, and must take if we’re to address the biodiversity loss we’re facing.”

“It’s our population growth that underlies just about every single one of the problems that we’ve inflicted on the planet. If there were just a few of us, then the nasty things we do wouldn’t really matter and Mother Nature would take care of it — but there are so many of us.”

“This organisation, Population Matters, is so very important, because this is one of the most important issues that we face today. We can’t go on like this, we can’t push human population growth under the carpet. It’s been shown all around the world that as women’s education improves, family size tends to drop. I would encourage every single conservation organisation, every single government organisation, to consider the absurdity of unlimited economic development on a planet with finite natural resources.”

“The climate crisis that now threatens life on Earth as we know it results from a combination of different human activities, including the pollution of land, air and water, our reckless burning of fossil fuels, the destruction of forests, extreme poverty, and the unsustainable life styles of so many of us. And all of this is impacted by the relentless growth of human populations and their livestock. Educating and empowering women and girls and providing family planning information enables more people to choose the size of their families. And choosing to have fewer children is one of the most important choices we can make.”

As you can see she is quite outspoken on this topic and has been for a long time. Long enough for the people at the WEF to invite her her to speak knowing her position.

Links: https://news.mongabay.com/2010/12/jane-goodall-and-david-att... https://populationmatters.org/quotes/ https://populationmatters.org/solutions/

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