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Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

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Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#111

Post by wiseowise »

ribosometronome wrote: post #80
whimsicalism wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it should all be circumventable. My phone, like my computer, should be able to install whatever code I damn well please.

The idea that we aren't allowed to sell limited purpose electronics seems pretty novel. A lot of the things I own have processors in them nowadays, are you suggesting the courts should require them all to create methodologies for us to run our own code on them?

> A lot of the things I own have processors in them nowadays, are you suggesting the courts should require them all to create methodologies for us to run our own code on them?

Don't play coy here, you understood what he/she said.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#112

Post by wiseowise »

hooli42 wrote: post #61
whimsicalism wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, just like how they've done on desktop environments

This is exactly the situation for desktop games right now, something Epic is profiting immensely from. It's an extremely annoying situation for users, having a dozen launcher/store apps around contributing to bloat.

I literally don't have anything but Steam installed.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#113

Post by kelnos »

xenadu02 wrote: post #89
tmtvl wrote: post #6

Wait, so the Google Play Store, which you can install alternatives to (F-Droid, Aurora, Amazon,...), and where you can easily install apps through other means (such as downloading an APK through your browser and running it from the file manager) is an illegal monopoly while the Apple App Store isn't? Well, I guess Google's market cap is only 2 trillion compared to Apple's 3 trillion, so I guess that's fair.

Not commenting on anything else about this but only pointing out that the law treats a company that sells a complete widget to the end user very differently from a company that sells a piece to someone who then sells the finished widget to the end user. A lot of people don't seem to appreciate reasoning from principles around any of this stuff. They just want to be able to do X, Y, or Z and any ad-hoc law or court ru…

I think we just have different priors.

My belief is that, fundamentally, everything should be open. Users should have full control over their devices, and manufacturers should have no place in dictating anything about how they are used, what software can and can't run on them, etc. (Note that I'm not being anti-proprietary-software here; I don't think companies should be required to give away their source code if they don't want to.)

I get that this isn't relevant from a legal perspective. But so what? I can talk about where I want the laws to go.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#114

Post by wiseowise »

tencentshill wrote: post #21

Soon we'll have the Verizon Appstore and the Spotify Appstore and the Zoom Appstore, the exclusive home for each app and their partners, each with it's own overlapping user tracking libraries and insecure payment methods, and no one can even tell them to do otherwise. Coming soon to iOS, too!

Do you have anything to prove your claim? Any precedent?

Epic could already to their own Play Store, but they didn't/couldn't. Freaking Amazon had their app store and they failed. Samsung also has their own App Store and how many non-Samsung phones run it?

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#115

Post by m463 »

sigmar wrote: post #96

I've been pretty anti-google on this topic (and a long time fdroid-lover). but this ruling is nuts to me, particularly where it says google "must give rival third-party app stores access to the full catalog of Google Play apps" I don't think we are going to see a healthy competitive marketplace with 4 years of chaos where every app store has the same apps, there's no curation at all or incentive structure for stores…

> where every app store has the same apps

Can't you buy dyson vacuums at the dyson store, at target, and on amazon?

Personally, this is making android phones a lot more interesting.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#116

Post by kelnos »

lovethevoid wrote: post #41
tmtvl wrote: post #6

Wait, so the Google Play Store, which you can install alternatives to (F-Droid, Aurora, Amazon,...), and where you can easily install apps through other means (such as downloading an APK through your browser and running it from the file manager) is an illegal monopoly while the Apple App Store isn't? Well, I guess Google's market cap is only 2 trillion compared to Apple's 3 trillion, so I guess that's fair.

Android has far more users both globally and in the US specifically, and the Play Store has triple the amount of downloads that the App Store has. This gives it far less lenience than Apple got in the EU, where it isn't even as dominant as in the US. Apple also has the benefit of being a sole operator of its platform, whereas Android and the Play Store aren't Google-only. Also Amazon was a key reason why the ruling i…

> Android has far more users both globally and in the US specifically

Globally, yes. Not in the US, though. iOS sits at around 57%, with Android at around 42%.

> Apple also has the benefit of being a sole operator of its platform, whereas Android and the Play Store aren't Google-only.

But yes, I think this is the key reason why Google and Apple are being treated differently by the law.

I think that's garbage, though, from the perspective of what feels reasonable to me (regardless of the law): Android has always been more open than iOS, and available to many different manufacturers and organizations. It's a bit weird that this openness means that they are required to be even more open, while a platform that has always been much more closed can remain that way.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#117

Post by Yeul »

tmtvl wrote: post #6

Wait, so the Google Play Store, which you can install alternatives to (F-Droid, Aurora, Amazon,...), and where you can easily install apps through other means (such as downloading an APK through your browser and running it from the file manager) is an illegal monopoly while the Apple App Store isn't? Well, I guess Google's market cap is only 2 trillion compared to Apple's 3 trillion, so I guess that's fair.

The EU didn't come to that conclusion they're gunning for everyone.

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#118

Post by ascagnel_ »

fredgrott wrote: post #19
xnx wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is ridiculous. From Google's reply ( https://blog.google/outreach-initiatives/public-policy/epic-... ): "These Epic-requested changes stem from a decision that is completely contrary to another court’s rejection of similar claims Epic made against Apple — even though, unlike iOS, Android is an open platform that has always allowed for choice and flexibility like multiple app stores and sideloading."

unlike Google's reply read the OEM terms that they sign....its not open like Google claims....

They got caught doing the same thing Microsoft got caught doing in the 90s with IE/Netscape -- using their monopoly position on one piece of software (Windows, the Google app suite) to prevent their OEMs from shipping another piece of software by default (Netscape, Epic Games Store) that directly competed with their own offering (Internet Explorer, Google Play Store). Since Google and Microsoft both use OEMs, unlike Apple in their parallel case, there's a clearer line to how Google is being unfair compared to how Apple is being unfair.

In short, Epic sued and won because Google got between them and Samsung.

In general, in the courts, it's a lot easier to ask a judge or jury for someone to stop doing a thing (blocking their software from being pre-installed) vs. forcing someone to do something they're not currently doing (allowing any third-party app stores).

Re: Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

#119

Post by [deleted] »

tmtvl wrote: post #6

Wait, so the Google Play Store, which you can install alternatives to (F-Droid, Aurora, Amazon,...), and where you can easily install apps through other means (such as downloading an APK through your browser and running it from the file manager) is an illegal monopoly while the Apple App Store isn't? Well, I guess Google's market cap is only 2 trillion compared to Apple's 3 trillion, so I guess that's fair.

[deleted]
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