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Jazz – Apps with Distributed State

jazz.tools

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Re: Jazz – Apps with Distributed State

#111

Post by theanzelm »

azeirah wrote: post #105
theanzelm wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meteor works on top of a traditional backend (typically MongoDB afaik?) to give you full-stack reactivity. Jazz implements essentially a distributed database with permissions based on public-key cryptography, so you can meaningfully create, edit, share and store data on the client (even while offline), which gets synced to other users and devices (and stored in the cloud) whenever you're online

Is this synchronisation (theoretically) possible over p2p communication protocols like Bluetooth or wifi direct? I would more than love to have local networks that can be emergent and growing and shrinking in this way. Reminds me of my student days when I was traveling in the train, wondering why we couldn't have a p2p social network for people who are in this train _right now_

yes! The hard part that Jazz doesn't solve is peer discovery. If you give Jazz a peer and a transport mechanism it will happily sync to it

Re: Jazz – Apps with Distributed State

#112

Post by theanzelm »

azeirah wrote: post #104
theanzelm wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Founder here - we’re working on that page, so far there’s just info on me on https://gcmp.io/team But I was able to hire a couple really good first people recently! We’re based all over Europe. Let me know what else you’d like to know!

Are you looking to hire at all? This is the kind of technical work that I'm very interested in. I'm based in Europe.

I think we're good for now but please link your GitHub / most impressive project, or shoot me an email to anselm@gcmp.io

Re: Jazz – Apps with Distributed State

#113

Post by theanzelm »

dalben wrote: post #110

This is absolutely fantastic! I have been looking on and off for something like this for years (some of the things I have used are CouchDB, command/event sourcing, and ditto.live). I have not been able to read the docs fully, but some questions: * How do you handle state that is too big to send to the client fully? In a chat application, does the client need to have the whole channel history, or is syncing a subset o…

- Jazz is built with granular syncing in mind. CoValues are meant to be small (think one level of a JSON tree) and then reference each other. You only resolve references and sync as far down as you need / in lists you can do pagination.

- CoValues can reference CoValues that belong to a different group and thus have different permissions. In your example the title would need to live in its own CoValue and group compared to the content, which is a tiny bit more setup, but totally viable

- no resources for data modelling yet, but the guide + example apps should give you a very good idea. If you have any questions, please ask on Discord! https://discord.gg/sesjU2W5

- deletion is typically soft-deletion with tombstones. Total erasure of entire CoValues is coming soon but should only be needed in compliance situations (such as GDPR)

Re: Jazz – Apps with Distributed State

#115

Post by theanzelm »

theanzelm wrote: post #93
frenchie4111 wrote: post #4

Mild nit: your website hijacked the back button, I had to spam click back like 30 times to get back to this hacker news comment thread

Just wanted to apologise to everyone for this, this kind of stuff drives me nuts and I'm not sure how I never noticed - it seems to be a result of how we use the iframe to render the chat example. Investigating!

Update: this should be fixed now

Re: Jazz – Apps with Distributed State

#116

Post by theanzelm »

MrGreenTea wrote: post #114

This looks very like a promising addition to the local-first space. Thanks for your work! Are there plans for supporting dart/Flutter as well in the future?

We want to support as many environments as possible and are doing them in order of easiest & most requested - you are the first one to ask about Dart/Flutter

React Native is released (experimental)

After that will be really good support for Next.JS (Jazz for both SSR and client)

A bit later will probably be a Rust port, which then also makes bindings to Swift/Kotlin/Go/... easy

Re: Jazz – Apps with Distributed State

#117

Post by boffinAudio »

theanzelm wrote: post #80
boffinAudio wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What plans do you have for a third-party audit/review of your backend to verify the claims being made? Its one thing to use this service on the basis of encryption claims - its another thing to have to clean up the mess from a forgotten API key being leaked somewhere... is there, therefore, a third party involved in an audit of Jazz?

First it's all open source so even without knowing that my paid service uses the same open source libraries, you can verify yourself that nothing leaves the client unencrypted. Of course we will also do public audit(s) with security companies to make sure our cryptographic protocols are sound and implemented correctly.

Thanks for the info. Of course, "its all open source" is a fair answer, but its also a dangerous one, since it shifts culpability for verification to anyone who has the time/resources to audit the open source components that you're using.

But, it also has to be stated, there is no guarantee that you're using only the open source components you've declared, which is why an impartial audit by a third party would be necessary before this project can be used to build products in some industries.

Anyway, I see that you have other concerns, so no worries and thanks for the honest answer.

Re: Jazz – Apps with Distributed State

#118

Post by meiraleal »

gocken wrote: post #41
yawnxyz wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

very cool! I was there for maybe 2 minutes before HN took the system down :D

Not very cool if it breaks under hardly any load. You'd think they'd test their tech demos on more than a handful of people before launching. This doesn't give much confidence at all in their product.

Tell me you never build anything without telling you never build anything

Re: Jazz – Apps with Distributed State

#119

Post by pkrulz101 »

theanzelm wrote: post #106
earthnail wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Storage seems reasonable, maybe even a bit too cheap, but the sync minutes look way too expensive. One problem is with end-user monetization: users are used to pay for storage, but not for how much time they can use your app. For a small storage-heavy indie app I have, I'd pay $79 for base price, $45 for additional storage, and $1500 for sync minutes.

Thanks, this is very helpful. If it's unfeasible for a small indie app then that's a bug in the pricing. If you have time, I'd love to hear about your app and work out alternatives (not just for you, but for everyone) anselm@gcmp.io anselm_io on Twitter Or book a chat directly: https://cal.com/anselm-io/talk-about-jazz (everyone else who has opinions on pricing is welcome to do the same)

Random one, but how do you find using Cal - Im keen to try it out?? I saw it on Onestack.cloud hosted for A$10 per 10 users per month which is pretty decent - our startup has a few founders and are pre-revenue, so means we couldn't really afford per user per month.

Re: Jazz – Apps with Distributed State

#120

Post by [deleted] »

theanzelm wrote: post #106
earthnail wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Storage seems reasonable, maybe even a bit too cheap, but the sync minutes look way too expensive. One problem is with end-user monetization: users are used to pay for storage, but not for how much time they can use your app. For a small storage-heavy indie app I have, I'd pay $79 for base price, $45 for additional storage, and $1500 for sync minutes.

Thanks, this is very helpful. If it's unfeasible for a small indie app then that's a bug in the pricing. If you have time, I'd love to hear about your app and work out alternatives (not just for you, but for everyone) anselm@gcmp.io anselm_io on Twitter Or book a chat directly: https://cal.com/anselm-io/talk-about-jazz (everyone else who has opinions on pricing is welcome to do the same)

[deleted]
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