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Liquid Foundation Models: Our First Series of Generative AI Models

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Re: Liquid Foundation Models: Our First Series of Generative AI Models

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, people find this interesting, but many (many) people get this wrong as well; it has something to do with how many letters it is and how many you can keep in your head I think. We are not very good counters or calculators or computers and, even though I am not saying llms are the same or close to humans, we tried to model their substrates after biology and are surprised we get something that cannot count or calcu…

> many (many) people get this wrong as well Many people can't count letters in a word?

I messed up spelling "juggler" in a spelling bee once (I was 10).

The confusing thing about LLMs is that they speak tokens, not written text, so it's a lot more like interrogating someone who is functionally illiterate- of course they're going to be a terrible speller.

You can find much weirder things that LLMs are absurdly bad at, like "A farmer needs to get himself and a chicken across a river. His boat can hold the farmer and one piece of cargo. How does he do this?" 9 times out of 10 LLMs will pattern match this to the classic puzzle (there's usually also a sack of grain and a wolf) and start insisting on extra trips and inventing wolves. Even if a human makes the same mistake, they almost certainly would realize it after being reminded that there is no wolf, but LLMs often insist there is. o1-preview (but not -mini) seems to have cracked it, though.

Re: Liquid Foundation Models: Our First Series of Generative AI Models

#112
post #91

General LLM question: a lot of people ask specific knowledge based questions to LLMs. Isn't one of the defining features of modern NPL (and therefore LLMs) that it is designed to be non-deterministic? Meaning that it will intentionally select "less optimal" next tokens at some random rate in order to make it sound less like a robot answering the same thing over and over. If this is the case, isn't it pretty much guar…

What you are referring to is called "temperature" with respect to LLMs, and it is a parameter that can be tweaked at inference time. Google's AI Overview gives a pretty good summary IMO:

> The temperature parameter in a large language model (LLM) controls the amount of randomness in the model's output. It's a numerical value that influences the model's choices, and is often set between 0 and 1.

> The temperature setting affects the quality of the output by balancing exploration and exploitation:

> Low temperature

> The model is more likely to exploit patterns it's already learned, resulting in more deterministic and conservative outputs. This is ideal for tasks that require accuracy, such as data analysis, technical writing, and summarizing research papers.

> High temperature

> The model is encouraged to explore, resulting in more varied and creative outputs. This is ideal for creative tasks, such as brainstorming, artistic content, and storytelling. However, adjusting the temperature too high can result in non-sensical outputs.

Re: Liquid Foundation Models: Our First Series of Generative AI Models

#113
post #93
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I'm all for open models; why can't the small models not be used effectively? Wouldn't they lower the costs compared to big models drastically?

Big models take up more VRAM just to have the weights sitting around hot in memory, yes. But running two concurrent inferences on the same hot model, doesn't require that you have two full copies of the model in memory. You only need two full copies of the model's "state" (the vector that serves as the output of layer N and the input of layer N+1, and the pool of active low-cardinality matrix-temporaries used to batc…

> they're attempting to make a "smart compressor" that minimizes the message-length of the compressed message [i.e. the state] by increasing the information embedded in the compressor itself [i.e. the model.]) And this seems to work! These bigger models can do more with less state, thereby allowing many more "cheap" inferences to run on single nodes.

Not sure I follow. CoT and go over length of the states is a relatively new phenomenon and I doubt when training the model, minimize the length of CoT is an explicit goal.

The only thing probably relevant to this comment is the use of grouped-query attention? That reduces the size of KV cache by factor of 4 to 8 depending on your group strategy. But I am unsure there is a clear trade-off between model size / grouped-query size given smaller KV cache == smaller model size naively.

Re: Liquid Foundation Models: Our First Series of Generative AI Models

#114
post #26
post #5

So a new set of small models that are competitive with and beat phi-3.5 on some benchmarks is extremely impressive. Context length is the next frontier for models in this range - getting to a true 128-200k token length in a small model would be very very useful. Hallucinations are less of an issue because you can just dump all the source data in, whole codebases can go in for stuff ranging from a refactor to ‘write d…

Llama 3.2 1B and 3B both claim a 128,000 token length.

They point out in the paper stats around where effectiveness drops off hard. It's at 32k at most everywhere now. Some models still at 4 to 8k. Getting to 200k in a smaller model is an open research area, as far as I'm aware. Ideas so far are pretty broad ranging, including using fourier transforms to try and capture cyclicality in inputs (mamba et al), RWKV (which I do not fully understand, but claims very long input context support), larger range of possible tokenizations shortening input length (llama 3), ..

Re: Liquid Foundation Models: Our First Series of Generative AI Models

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, people find this interesting, but many (many) people get this wrong as well; it has something to do with how many letters it is and how many you can keep in your head I think. We are not very good counters or calculators or computers and, even though I am not saying llms are the same or close to humans, we tried to model their substrates after biology and are surprised we get something that cannot count or calcu…

It's a magician-like trick. The double-r gets all the attention because one needs to consciously remember it, so nobody remembers to look at the other single-r. The LLMs probably get it wrong because people get it wrong.

I thought it was something to do with the way tokens are generated for the word strawberry?

https://arbisoft.com/blogs/why-ll-ms-can-t-count-the-r-s-in-...

Re: Liquid Foundation Models: Our First Series of Generative AI Models

#116
post #5

So a new set of small models that are competitive with and beat phi-3.5 on some benchmarks is extremely impressive. Context length is the next frontier for models in this range - getting to a true 128-200k token length in a small model would be very very useful. Hallucinations are less of an issue because you can just dump all the source data in, whole codebases can go in for stuff ranging from a refactor to ‘write d…

>Hallucinations are less of an issue because you can just dump all the source data in, whole codebases can go in for stuff ranging from a refactor to ‘write documentation of the API’. Is there no risk ? I mean say for testing purposes we give the AI a giant CSV file and ask it to make it a json is the chance for error 0% ? Because today we need to double check when we ask AI to transform some data or transform some c…

There's always risk!

But when you ask a model to rely on just the input data, you are (mostly) trying to tap into its reasoning, not knowledge side. Obviously what's kind of magical is that some knowledge will be needed for reasoning, and you have it. But LLMs small and large are pretty good at doing the in-context stuff. It is precisely what they're trained on, and in fact it was kind of a surprise how well they seemed to generalize outside of this task in the first place.

Re: Liquid Foundation Models: Our First Series of Generative AI Models

#117
post #81

This is all getting kinda boring to keep up with.

To be fair, the boring, low-quality, cheap space is exactly where we'll probably get something useful out of LLMs when somebody manages to invent it.

But yeah, it's boring.

Re: Liquid Foundation Models: Our First Series of Generative AI Models

#118
Every time there's a tech hype cycle, trust some academics to come out of the woodwork, raise some absurd amount of money and sit out the resulting crash, only to be acquired/acqui-hired by some company to on-shore talent in an emerging area, rest and vest, then become VCs/partners. Plenty of examples:

1. Covariant -> Started by Berkeley folks, acqui-hired by Amazon after half a year of peddling a patchwork quilt of buzzwords through their Robot Foundational Model - 1 (RFM-1).

2. Drive.ai -> Started by Stanford folks, acqui-hired by Apple, only for most of the team to leave to found Landing.ai (I still don't know what this company actually does apart from allowing the founders to carve out nice, fat consulting contracts?).

3. World Labs -> Started by Stanford folks, physical embodiment but only 3D, NeRFs, perception something something? Not a single operator/person with business person in the founding cabal.

4. Physical Intelligence -> Started by Stanford folks (seeing a pattern here...), physical embodiment, data collection, foundational models something something.

5. Skild Ai -> Started by CMU folks, physical embodiment, again not sure what the plan is here.

6. Argo.AI -> Started by CMU folks, self-driving group that didn't go anywhere. Eventually shuttered and absorbed into Ford/Volkswagen.

7. Aurora.tech -> Started by CMU folks, self-driving team that SPAC'd and is now just existing in between debating raising capital or selling itself for parts I think?

8. Rethink Robotics -> Started by MIT folks, Rodney Brooks' legendary robotics companies that wanted to mass produce industrial robots, and then decided how the robot eyes should look like...fold, shuttered, and now relaunched only in name, none of the original robots or aesthetic (rightfully so) persists.

So many examples like this...none of these companies actually are vaguely interested in creating enduring business, have a business plan (other than GPU go brrr) or have any idea of how to run a business.

Re: Liquid Foundation Models: Our First Series of Generative AI Models

#119
post #63
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I'm all for open models; why can't the small models not be used effectively? Wouldn't they lower the costs compared to big models drastically?

These aren't the "small" models I'm thinking of. I want an LLM, STT, or TTS model to run efficiently on a Raspberry Pi with no GPU and no network. There is huge opportunity for LLM-based toys, tools, sensors, and the like. But they need to work sans internet.

You may be interested in this tread regarding whisper.cpp on an Rpi4:

https://github.com/ggerganov/whisper.cpp/discussions/166

Re: Liquid Foundation Models: Our First Series of Generative AI Models

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it fascinating. To me it grounds expectations and motivates discussions about the jagged boundaries of LLM capabilities.

Why do you find it fascinating? I have the most rudimentary understanding of LLMs and it seems to me the least fascinating thing about LLM limitations. That is, all LLMs look at language as a series of opaque, independent tokens, e.g. strawberry might be a single token (say ), or probably two (e.g. straw and berry, say ). But in no way will it represent it like we will, with letters. So if you ask it "how many R's ar…

I don’t think we’ve yet come to the point where, how an LLM end to end goes from prompt to output is blatantly obvious.

LLMs operate with language at multiple levels of abstraction and tokens are not the only way to have character level knowledge.

For example, nothing excludes pre-training data from directly or indirectly encoding such knowledge.

And of course LLMs famously have emergent properties, for which there’s not yet a precise mechanism to illuminate the results.

We’re dealing with very complex systems that are still relatively poorly understood, and I believe the pool of concepts understood to the point of being blatantly obvious is still small.

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