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Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

innocenceproject.org

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Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's plenty of evidence. He confessed to his girlfriend, and a cellmate. Be careful, this is hearsay and not evidence. Those people claim that he confessed to them, but there is a lot more context. Here is what the linked story says about the "he confessed" part: > The investigation had gone cold until a jail inmate named Henry Cole, a man with a lengthy record, claimed that Mr. Williams confessed to him that he…

> Both of these individuals were known fabricators Careful- it we're considering their history, then Mr Williams has a history of over a dozen counts of armed violence, burglary, robbery, and assault. > this is hearsay and not evidence Conflicting reports say that Asano provided verified information that had not been publicized. And Asano refused a cash reward for relaying the confessions she had heard. Regardless, h…

I would think the far more compelling detail is the one you overlooked:

> Their statements were inconsistent with their own prior statements, with each other’s accounts, and with the crime scene evidence, and none of the information they provided could be independently verified.

Not only were the two known liars, but their accounts could not be verified, and they conflict with each other as well as the existing evidence. That seems enough reason to me to call their testimony into question.

Also, I'm a little curious about your assertion:

> Conflicting reports say that Asano provided verified information that had not been publicized

When TFA specifically included the following:

> neither revealed any information that was not either included in media accounts about the case or already known to the police.

That, coupled with the fact that apparently none of the evidence at the scene was linked to Marcellus Williams makes me wonder how he was ever convicted in the first place. If we can take TFA at its word, the whole thing smells wrong.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Being Christian is about forgiving and loving your neighbours, isn’t it?

I dont think so really. The Crusades would have never happened if that were true.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this case the prosecutor actively pushed against the execution, arguing that his guilt was no longer beyond a reasonable doubt. The blame for this lies squarely on the Missouri Supreme Court and Gov. Parson (who has never once granted clemency in a capital case).

As well as the US Supreme Court

[flagged]

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Being Christian is about forgiving and loving your neighbours, isn’t it?

Yes however in Christian theology it's both forgiveness _and_ repentance (which requires a penance), thus it doesn't mean you are free of consequences just because you have been forgiven.

Additionally, loving your neighbour means calling on God's mercy which is willing the Good of the other (the definition of "what is good?" is answered differently in Christianity).

Finally, not everyone is your neighbour (Jesus also acknowledged his enemies in Luke 19:27).

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Being Christian is about forgiving and loving your neighbours, isn’t it?

I love my children and I forgive them when they do wrong, but there's always consequences for actions.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Both of these individuals were known fabricators Careful- it we're considering their history, then Mr Williams has a history of over a dozen counts of armed violence, burglary, robbery, and assault. > this is hearsay and not evidence Conflicting reports say that Asano provided verified information that had not been publicized. And Asano refused a cash reward for relaying the confessions she had heard. Regardless, h…

I would think the far more compelling detail is the one you overlooked: > Their statements were inconsistent with their own prior statements, with each other’s accounts, and with the crime scene evidence, and none of the information they provided could be independently verified. Not only were the two known liars, but their accounts could not be verified, and they conflict with each other as well as the existing evide…

TFA is published by The Innocence Project, which obviously only presents one side of the story.

I was also using a statement from the governor,

https://governor.mo.gov/press-releases/archive/state-carry-o...

who makes some assertions which contradict the innocence project's.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is there are two different standards of proof at different points of the legal process. Conviction requires proof beyond a reasonable doubt — all the onus is on the prosecution to prove that you indisputably committed that crime. In this case unreliable evidence was used without which this standard likely would not have been met. Once you’ve been convicted (in this case on shoddy evidence) the onus is on…

So conviction is a "trap door" of evidence weight? If someone is convicted based on evidence that is later shown to be totally insufficient to support that conviction, this new information does nothing to overturn the conviction?

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "later shown to be totally insufficient to support that conviction"? The sufficience of evidence doesn't randomly change. If you mean that they were convicted based on evidence that shouldn't have been shown to the jury, you can win an appeal on that.

The standard before your convicted is that the jury must find you guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. The standard after you've been convicted is that you must have found substantial new evidence that warrants reconsidering the verdict, or you must show that the original trial was mishandled somehow. "I think the jury was stupid" is not a valid appeal.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's plenty of evidence. He confessed to his girlfriend, and a cellmate. He pawned the victim's possessions. He was seen disposing of bloody clothes. He already had 15 felony convictions in addition to offenses related to Ms. Gayle's murder: robbery (2), armed criminal action (2), assault (2), burglary (4), stealing (3), stealing a motor vehicle, and unlawful use of a weapon. Now, as to whether this evidence is so…

> There's plenty of evidence. He confessed to his girlfriend, and a cellmate. Be careful, this is hearsay and not evidence. Those people claim that he confessed to them, but there is a lot more context. Here is what the linked story says about the "he confessed" part: > The investigation had gone cold until a jail inmate named Henry Cole, a man with a lengthy record, claimed that Mr. Williams confessed to him that he…

There was also a $10,000 reward for information which easily could have incentivized them to provide false testimony
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