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Hezbollah pager explosions kill several people in Lebanon

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Re: Hezbollah pager explosions kill several people in Lebanon

#111

It's just a matter of knowing your battery's power management firmware. You can overload the power control circuits that pagers or smartphones by creating a massive surge (sending signals to the IGBT drivers) that will cause the battery to explode. If the battery is moderately charged, the explosion is devastating. Hacker teams from the notorious Israeli ShinBet know of many bugs of this type.

Other comments here are suggesting it was more likely a real explosive put in as part of a physical supply chain attack. Anyone able to say which is more plausible?

Re: Hezbollah pager explosions kill several people in Lebanon

#112
This being a hack is improbable in my opinion. If you see the pictures of the aftermath, the damage is too big to be the result of a lithium battery explosion. Moreover the devices exploded at the same time in different locations (won’t happen if they made the battery overheat till explosion) HA probably bought a bad batch with implanted explosives and they set it off now.

Re: Hezbollah pager explosions kill several people in Lebanon

#113
post #106

It's absurd that this was flagged and pushed off the front page. Either it was a supply chain attack with explosives installed, or this was a hack that caused battery explosion. Either way this is extremely relevant to Hacker News.

This is true, however I can also accept that a thread on this is going to descend into a shit show.

Re: Hezbollah pager explosions kill several people in Lebanon

#114

Maybe a dumb question, but I wonder if this was a software attack or IL was able to modify the physical pagers that are issued during Hezbollah onboarding. If this was a pure software attack, are only pagers susceptible? Or are we unknowingly carrying around bombs in our pocket, waiting for the counterattack?

There's no way the little battery in a pager has enough energy to do this. This is a 'supply chain attack' by the Israelis. An ingenious one at that.

NB: that's probably backwards. Batteries contain a lot of energy, they just don't release it particularly quickly.

Most explosives have relatively low energy density, however the energy they have is released far faster than with conventional fuels. By unit mass, TNT (or other comparable explosives such as C4, RDX, etc.) have about 1/10th the energy as liquid petroleum fuels (petrol, diesel, kerosene).

Though again most battery technologies also have fairly low energy densities. But those are probably roughly comparable with most mainstream explosives.

TNT has an energy density of 4.184 MJ/kg.

A LiON battery: 0.36–0.875 MJ/kg.

Motorola pagers (a widely used type) seem to typically take a 3.5V 500mAh battery, which if I'm doing my conversions correctly (mAh * V * 3.6) works out to about 23 kilojoule. That would be the energy equivalent of ~5g TNT. A light charge, but one you wouldn't want going off on your hip.

(Note: I've corrected an off-by-an-order-of-1,000 error above, earlier read 23 MJ / 180g TNT. As I said, I'm not entirely certain of my calculations, which are using the Wikipedia energy densities noted and GNU Units.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density>

Again, batteries won't explode as footage of the presumed Israeli attack on Hezbolla members shows. But they do contain appreciable energy. It would more likely burn rapidly at worst case.

Re: Hezbollah pager explosions kill several people in Lebanon

#115
post #3

Why was this flagged? I vouched for it as it would make for an interesting discussion about the security of these devices and how this kind of cyberattack might have happened. Are smartphones, for example, also vulnerable to it?

> Why was this flagged? Anything any particularly motivated group dislikes here gets flagged; always been this way. Thanks for vouching. > Are smartphones, for example, also vulnerable to it? I also would love an answer to this question. Up until 12 minutes ago, I would never have thought _blowing up_ hundreds of pagers simultaneously was a realistic scenario. If anyone can make sense of how this actually worked I'd…

"Political" (including geopolitical) posts on here lead to an enormous amount of anger and noise and I fully get why they're verboten. In this case it's actually a fascinating issue that has a lot of crossovers with the domain of this site, but invariably the conversation would get overwhelmed with geopolitical noise instead of just focusing on the technical aspects.

Re: Hezbollah pager explosions kill several people in Lebanon

#116
post #91

newer reports saying 1000s not 100s https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/sep/17/middle-ea...

> More than 1,000 people, including Hezbollah fighters and medics The CNN title implies that only Hezbollah members were targeted were reality seems different. It's crazy a country is capable of doing a "special security operation" on civilians of another country without any international sanctions.

[flagged]

Re: Hezbollah pager explosions kill several people in Lebanon

#118
post #3

Why was this flagged? I vouched for it as it would make for an interesting discussion about the security of these devices and how this kind of cyberattack might have happened. Are smartphones, for example, also vulnerable to it?

>Are smartphones, for example, also vulnerable to it? Yes if Israeli intelligence gets their hands on your smartphone (probably before you buy it) and installs an explosive and a software-hardware back door.

even that is not far fetched. This is a typical supply chain attack.

Re: Hezbollah pager explosions kill several people in Lebanon

#120
post #3

Why was this flagged? I vouched for it as it would make for an interesting discussion about the security of these devices and how this kind of cyberattack might have happened. Are smartphones, for example, also vulnerable to it?

[flagged]
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