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How Google's Marissa Mayer Prevents Burnout

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Re: How Google's Marissa Mayer Prevents Burnout

#111

Post by ficho »

crusso wrote: post #90
ficho wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1, this reads more like corporate branding on how cool can early googlers be more than anything else. I'm pretty happy for her if she manages 130 hours a week, but this doesn't work for everyone... if any. I don't really care in the debate of working your ass off or staying sane and mentally fresh to be productive, but Google pushing this fact is just plain sad. What are we supposed to react? Just awe in admiration…

> but Google pushing this fact is just plain sad. Do you think it's part of some larger corporate effort on their part? Seems like they need to talk to the employees who posted contrary statements in this thread. They don't seem to be on-message. > Plus I was at the talk and it was sadly sadly corporate. Wouldn't you expect someone highly successful in a corporate environment when asked about work environment issues…

I don't think its a conscious decision on Google's end. They have grown, and as it becomes larger as an organization it faces different challenges. PR and communication becomes naturally very different for a large organization, it is much more scrutinized, subject to easy criticism etc. So some sort of party line attitude is necessary.

It's a thin line to walk, between honest truthfulness and too much marketing bs. I think Google is a bit too much in the latter these days, but I still have good faith in it.

Re: How Google's Marissa Mayer Prevents Burnout

#112

Post by mratzloff »

groby_b wrote: post #100
mratzloff wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked long hours too. Being a hero is counterproductive in so many ways. If a deadline requires that level of exhaustion, you're doing it wrong.

There _are_ deadlines that are worth it. Putting in the extra hours so the decision demo to the VC guys is smoother? Uh, yes. Same goes for e.g. working on reducing network traffic before a spike will hit, if that reduction will save you a million or two. In all cases, make sure the payout is commensurate with your effort - i.e. unless you own equity or there is a large bonus attached to that, IMHO you should tell th…

There _are_ deadlines that are worth it. Putting in the extra hours so the decision demo to the VC guys is smoother? Uh, yes. Same goes for e.g. working on reducing network traffic before a spike will hit, if that reduction will save you a million or two.

Yeah, definitely agree. I was more referring to employee positions without significant equity, which you touched on in the rest of your post.

Re: How Google's Marissa Mayer Prevents Burnout

#113

Post by saraid216 »

munificent wrote: post #60

In case anyone is wondering whether this reflects Google's current working culture, let me comment that in my experience it absolutely does not. In the office I work in, it is virtually empty at 8:00 AM and mostly empty by 7:00 PM. Most people seem to show up around 9:00 AM and leave around 6:00. On Fridays, the office mostly stops working around 5:00 PM. There is a cadre of people, typically those without families,…

I've been pretty highly entertained by the complete and utter inability of the other commenters to recognize her examples as edge cases.

Mayer's explanation should really be read like this:

Employee X has been working 130 hour weeks for the past month. He's looking more than a little worse for wear; he's probably going to burn out soon. Let's sit him down for a chat and make sure he's doing okay. Oh, he's been missing his daughter's soccer games to manage a critical deploy, and those soccer games are super important to him. Alright, let's deal with that. Mandate that someone else take over, de-prioritize the deploy, rework the process so that deploys happen on a different day or a different time... whatever it takes. He might still be working 130 a week, and that's not great, but he gets the critical thing he just can't miss.

Re: How Google's Marissa Mayer Prevents Burnout

#114

Post by saraid216 »

leftnode wrote: post #2

The paragraph When Mayer suspects an employee might burn out, she asks them to find their rhythm. They've come back with, "I need to be home for Tuesday night dinners," or "I need to be on time for my daughter's soccer games." really bothers me. If employee burnout is a regular thing inside your organization, that's a serious issue that needs solving. But to have to ask permission to spend time with your family is ri…

> If employee burnout is a regular thing inside your organization, that's a serious issue that needs solving.

Congratulations, you have discovered the entire point of the article.

> But to have to ask permission to spend time with your family is ridiculous.

I didn't see any "ask permission" going on. I saw a manager who realized this is something she has to discover from her employees, and then made sure they received it.

Re: How Google's Marissa Mayer Prevents Burnout

#116

Post by prince_hakeem »

Can someone here just say "fuck this bitch" and call it a day? When the hell are we going to realize that the whole thing pretty much boils down to luck.... where you went to school... who you know... that's it. She's no smarter than anyone on this site, yet she's valued at 100x or more than most anyone here. Why she's looked at as some sort of sage is beyond me.

Re: How Google's Marissa Mayer Prevents Burnout

#117

Post by einhverfr »

nickpinkston wrote: post #54
blindhippo wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people are reaacting to the 130 hour note a bit too much. I doubt that was a common occurence, just an outlier week put in there for effect. If what you do for work is your passion (ie: hobby, interest, etc), then you naturally get energy back from the effort you put in. Especially if you see meaningful results back. In such a situation, Mayer's recommendations makes sense. Working for someone else's passion,…

I think this is probably the best interpretation of the piece. Both 1.) that passion restores (this is probably the chief reason to do what you love and not follow big trends blindly BTW), and 2.) that the 130hr was an outliner that was brought out of this piece for dramatic effect. I'd also love to see a poll for who actually does this desk sleeping stuff. Also, how many of those fell asleep in school often? I just…

I could see sleeping at my desk, but now for late night stuff, I would really prefer to work from home so I can sleep in my own bed. I dont see why you should have to sleep at your desk. The only reason really to be in the office is to interact with other people and unless everyone else is sleeping at their desks....

Re: How Google's Marissa Mayer Prevents Burnout

#118

Post by einhverfr »

quaunaut wrote: post #10
leftnode wrote: post #2

The paragraph When Mayer suspects an employee might burn out, she asks them to find their rhythm. They've come back with, "I need to be home for Tuesday night dinners," or "I need to be on time for my daughter's soccer games." really bothers me. If employee burnout is a regular thing inside your organization, that's a serious issue that needs solving. But to have to ask permission to spend time with your family is ri…

Not always. I get the feeling that the article was more written with the mind of the early days of Google- where one employee working 130 hour weeks could save the company tens/hundreds of thousands, and she wanted it to work that well. Google most definitely doesn't require those insane hours out of people today- hell, quite the opposite. Requesting to spend time with your family does seem ridiculous, but the thing…

One thing that's critical here is to internalize the wisdom in "more speed, less haste." Know yourself, and find your productivity sweet spot.

For example, I am most productive when I am doing approx 6 hrs of heavy coding a day. More than that and productivity slowly drops. Less, and I could be doing more. That leaves time for meetings, management activity, etc. Most of the time I can out-produce at least three other developers together at 6 hrs/day, and I don't care how much time they put in.

That allows really 10-12 hours of work a day max, which means really no more than 90 hours of work a week assuming doing some work every day.

Re: How Google's Marissa Mayer Prevents Burnout

#119

Post by krishnakv »

saraid216 wrote: post #113
munificent wrote: post #60

In case anyone is wondering whether this reflects Google's current working culture, let me comment that in my experience it absolutely does not. In the office I work in, it is virtually empty at 8:00 AM and mostly empty by 7:00 PM. Most people seem to show up around 9:00 AM and leave around 6:00. On Fridays, the office mostly stops working around 5:00 PM. There is a cadre of people, typically those without families,…

I've been pretty highly entertained by the complete and utter inability of the other commenters to recognize her examples as edge cases. Mayer's explanation should really be read like this: Employee X has been working 130 hour weeks for the past month. He's looking more than a little worse for wear; he's probably going to burn out soon. Let's sit him down for a chat and make sure he's doing okay. Oh, he's been missin…

"When Google was a young company, she worked 130 hours per week and often slept at her desk." - Nothing from the article suggests this is an edge case. Instead the author seems to perpetuate a very dangerous meme "toughen up and work insane hours if you want to get anywhere in the startup scene".

This meme is dangerous not just because of the effect it has on people who don't subscribe to this, but also because it is just plain wrong. People who work longer hours are not more productive and they do not get more done. Its a simple case of measuring input (hours spent) instead of output (quality code, decisions whatever...), because measuring what matters is not very straight-forward.

I know the statement above doesn't have backing data, just my experience/ observations, but have you seen anything to contradict this statement?

Re: How Google's Marissa Mayer Prevents Burnout

#120

Post by zitterbewegung »

crusso wrote: post #84
zitterbewegung wrote: post #13

I think that its great that it worked for Marissa Mayer. But, the culture of working over 40 hours is troubling. It really puts into perspective what you should value. I value my free time too much to take that choice.

What's troubling? A culture of working over 40 hours? Or the fact that some people choose to? Is it your perception that our culture is moving toward working more hours? http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DatasetCode=ANHRS The trend appears to be downward. Yay?

I believe that working that long isn't sustainable and I think that it puts unrealistic expectations for the average person. I would welcome your trend. Thank for the data.
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