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Be a thermostat, not a thermometer (2023)

larahogan.me

111–120 of 144 posts

Re: Be a thermostat, not a thermometer (2023)

#111
post #73
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any tips for the person on the other side? I often mention something without implying blame (or even assuming blame), but it’s still processed that way. I’m trying to be conscious of this though.

I have given up on people that can not process criticism. Its a vital aspect of working together, or even just living together. If everything I say is put on a scale, I simply dont interact with such people anymore. If you can't take criticism without the blame-game, you're not worth my time and effort.

> If you can't take criticism without the blame-game, you're not worth my time and effort.

QFT

Re: Be a thermostat, not a thermometer (2023)

#112
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this and I have learned more than enough about it to internalize it, but it just doesn't work. I can't find a way to stop the automatic jumping to conclusion and self blame. It takes hours to get over it and that's exhausting. I am trying for years to find a way out, but it just hasn't internalized yet

I have the same problem and I made a lot of progress this year and the last. A few things that help in no particular order: - Write things down. Over time you start noticing patterns that help you diagnose and fix the issue. I particularly love the post-mortem when returning from a house party, and how batshit itsane it reads 5 days later. I also have a play-by-play diary of me thinking I was misreading a person's in…

> Treat your overreaction to social cues as irrational, and deal with it accordingly.

This is so smart.

Even broader, take your overreactions to most things as irrational. I am using this recently to rewire myself on all sorts of things and it's quite transformative.

Re: Be a thermostat, not a thermometer (2023)

#113
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you believe that nonviolent communication is manipulation? It focuses on ways to hear unmet needs in others and to express unmet needs in a way that can be heard by others. Have you read the book by chance?

Yes, read the book and my nephew teaches a form of it. It balmes the victim for the most part. It reminds of of"you are acting hysterical" and gaslighting. Maybe read some critiques about it. https://realsocialskills.org/2014/07/17/nonviolent-communica... https://www.collectivelyfree.org/nonviolent-communication-pr...

The first link, that is a big stretch and misses half the response. They almost capture it and then flub to spread wrong information.

They got this far:

"I notice that when your partner talks to other men, you express feeling hurt and ask her not to. It sounds like you feel hurt and maybe even betrayed when she has those conversations. I hear that respect is really important to you, and you want to feel valued in the relationship."

What they totally missed: Suggesting alternative strategies that meet both parties' needs without harm.

"Can we explore ways for both of you to feel respected, while also honoring her autonomy and connections with others?"

This is NOT emotionally abusive to the woman or lower-powered individual in the exchange. This is acknowledging the emotions of the abuser and still coming back to honoring the woman's unmet needs. These techniques have been used between waring tribes with family that has been murdered. The book has a particularly harrowing passage about NVC saving a near-rape-and-murder victim.

The second link is marginally better but I disagree on nearly every point. Instead of writing a counter post for each, but to say that overall I think they missed the message of the book. They seem set on the word choice and power dynamics. Word choice is mostly unrelated: it is conveying unmet needs and acknowledging the unmet needs of others. Simple as that. And then to go on about body language as a point against NVC is strange as the NVC is about spoken communication. They are digging for reasons to talk against the book. I assume there is some agenda.

Re: Be a thermostat, not a thermometer (2023)

#114
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it very hard to impossible to do immediately afterwards. I can detect it, which is somewhat obvious, and write down the situation, but finding the source of it immediately I find unrealistic. Either we talk about different things here, or I lack some Sherlock Holmes level skills that you have. Anyway, if something bothers me that hard, making it unbother me is an improvement to work in a stupid situation, not…

> Otoh, I successfully defeated my non-actionable fear of being late, but it took me a couple of advanced techniques I didn’t even know existed, some movie-level talk to your childhood stuff. Can you elaborate on these techniques?

The downward arrow (cbt) with elements of self-hypnosis.

You basically log-trace your mind at emotional points, including pulling up automatic thoughts (somewhat difficult, they tend to escape). Datetime, situation, emotion, thoughts, levels. Then intersect it all through time, because different situations disturb different sets of facets of your problem, but only one facet is primary. This discovers intermediate beliefs and coping strategies, makes them explicit. And then you logically realize your core belief. It may happen quickly or slowly (weeks), depends on how conscious you are about it and how often it happens.

In my case it was: unable to do anything 4-5 hours before an appointment or even a friends meeting. Set up a few timers, got ready step by step, doing mostly nothing in time buffers. Check for clean clothes, etc. Afraid of forgetting time and being late. Coping: long preparation, timing processes, checking time in the car. Intermediate belief: if I prepare I’ll be on time. Core belief: being late is atrocious and intolerable.

Realizing is only half the job. To destroy a core belief you have to remember how [irrationally] it formed, that’s where hypnosis kicks in. I couldn’t sleep/relax in a session, but took homework. Basically before you go to sleep you ask yourself “when it was”, as if there was some entity inside you who could answer. Few minutes later it just flashed in pre-sleep in every detail. It’s akin to thinking “I will wake up at 6:30” and doing so, a similar process and feeling.

I was few hours late from school when my grandma waited for me and couldn‘t get to work (strict schedule). She was afraid of giving me the keys. I was tired that everyone plays after classes and I cannot, so decided to just not care. She was very angry and terrified, hit me and went away like I was an enemy.

Next week after therapy, for the first time in 25 years I was being intentionally late to a doctor, said hi, sorry for being late. She said it’s fine, smiled and asked what I came with.

I realize I have serious issues here (like many others probably). But I believe either there’s no easy way to “just reflect afterwards”, or these issues aren’t really that hard to make this process explicit. I, for one, don’t understand how you get an emotion if a logical counter is readily available in your mind. It won’t happen for me in the first place then. Maybe on the contrary, I’m… healthier?

Re: Be a thermostat, not a thermometer (2023)

#115
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have given up on people that can not process criticism. Its a vital aspect of working together, or even just living together. If everything I say is put on a scale, I simply dont interact with such people anymore. If you can't take criticism without the blame-game, you're not worth my time and effort.

> If you can't take criticism without the blame-game, you're not worth my time and effort. QFT

Quantum Fourier Transform?

Re: Be a thermostat, not a thermometer (2023)

#116
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you believe that nonviolent communication is manipulation? It focuses on ways to hear unmet needs in others and to express unmet needs in a way that can be heard by others. Have you read the book by chance?

Yes, read the book and my nephew teaches a form of it. It balmes the victim for the most part. It reminds of of"you are acting hysterical" and gaslighting. Maybe read some critiques about it. https://realsocialskills.org/2014/07/17/nonviolent-communica... https://www.collectivelyfree.org/nonviolent-communication-pr...

I won't repeat what the sibling commenter has stated except to say that I agree that these authors seem to have missed the point.

Anecdotally, my partner and I have found a ton of value in it within our relationship.

Re: Be a thermostat, not a thermometer (2023)

#117
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, read the book and my nephew teaches a form of it. It balmes the victim for the most part. It reminds of of"you are acting hysterical" and gaslighting. Maybe read some critiques about it. https://realsocialskills.org/2014/07/17/nonviolent-communica... https://www.collectivelyfree.org/nonviolent-communication-pr...

I won't repeat what the sibling commenter has stated except to say that I agree that these authors seem to have missed the point. Anecdotally, my partner and I have found a ton of value in it within our relationship.

"Serenity now, insanity later."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJVIX-4OyT0

Re: Be a thermostat, not a thermometer (2023)

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At a former company we once had an away day workshop where they allowed anonymous questions for the company director which would show up on a screen for everyone (it was a ~40-50 person company). We were a management consultancy and trialling what they thought was cool new tech to use with other companies. ( This was a while ago, smart phones were newer and apps were still "cool" ) Well, they very quickly learned to…

Ooh, some lifetimes ago at a company we had a CEO that did a company wide presentation where he kept mentioning that the shareholders are the most important thing of the entire company and we all should do everything to please the shareholders. The instant hate towards him could almost be touched and tasted.

"I don't think you understand what the product is. The product isn't the platform, and the product isn't your algorithm, either. And it's not even the software. Do you know what Pied Piper's product is, Richard?"

"Is... Is it me?"

"Oh God! No! No. How could it possibly be you? You got fired. Pied Piper's product is its stock."

Re: Be a thermostat, not a thermometer (2023)

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, read the book and my nephew teaches a form of it. It balmes the victim for the most part. It reminds of of"you are acting hysterical" and gaslighting. Maybe read some critiques about it. https://realsocialskills.org/2014/07/17/nonviolent-communica... https://www.collectivelyfree.org/nonviolent-communication-pr...

The first link, that is a big stretch and misses half the response. They almost capture it and then flub to spread wrong information. They got this far: "I notice that when your partner talks to other men, you express feeling hurt and ask her not to. It sounds like you feel hurt and maybe even betrayed when she has those conversations. I hear that respect is really important to you, and you want to feel valued in the…

>They are digging for reasons to talk against the book. I assume there is some agenda.

You have an agenda as well.

The problem is that you need BOTH parties to engage in NVC for it to work. and what happens is the person who does not want to use NVC is blamed. This is denying the person their agency.

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